Dr. Mary Marano

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:19] Speaker B: Have you ever struggled in regards to intimacy within a marriage or long term relationship? What about relationship anxiety? Do you experience any of that at all? If so, well, you're not alone. And here with me today is a very special guest that will be providing some strategies on how to best manage these issues and more. Her name is Dr. Mary Morano. Welcome to Awareness, the podcast. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. This is exciting. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Rob Daniels with you here. And this is episode number 12. Don't forget to like and subscribe wherever you, your podcasts appreciate, if you're watching on YouTube or listening on any of the platforms, wherever you get your podcast. So again, don't forget to like and subscribe. That would certainly mean the world. So here we are again. It is episode number 12. Grateful that you're along for the ride. And you're actually the, the first doctor on this program. So thank you for, for that. I appreciate that for stepping up and, and doing this. Officially Psychotherapist, your title. Right. And I've seen a ton of your work online, which is fantastic. And I think that's great that you're interactive on social media. You embrace that and embrace therapy to as many people as possible. So I think you definitely deserve kudos for that. [00:01:43] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:01:44] Speaker B: Thank you 100%. So I wanted to bring you here to talk about, you know, a number of issues and we'll certainly get to as many as we can. So you're. Is there like any sort of specialty with psychotherapy that, like certain subjects that you, that certain clientele come to you for specifically, or is it everything and anything? [00:02:10] Speaker A: It's usually everything and anything. But people know me as the do or die relationship doctor. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:16] Speaker A: And what that means is I'm usually the last resort person that people will come and see before they might be on the verge of divorce or they're having challenges in their families with their children. Children. So I usually am dealing with high conflict family situations and it's usually because I'm not scared to tell you what and who the problem is. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:38] Speaker A: And I help people transform their stress into strength. So it's been a great journey so far. I've been able to see thousands of clients transform before my eyes. So it's a real privilege for me to do this work. [00:02:52] Speaker B: And you've been involved in it for how many years? [00:02:55] Speaker A: Private practice for 10 years. We have a clinic in my community and I've been in the field for over 30 years, working in residential treatment, hospital settings, school board, and now transition to private practice. [00:03:10] Speaker B: Good for you. So I'm just. I'm so grateful that you're here first and foremost. Again, like, it's. It's fantastic that you're giving some of your time back. Some of the subjects I wanted to cover, first and foremost was, and we'll get right into it, is relationship anxiety. And this could be something that a number of people. Have you had people come to you for this before, like, just dealing with a lot of anxious nerves within a relationship and not sure what to do in terms of continuing the relationship or staying in it. You get that a lot? [00:03:44] Speaker A: Well, of course. I mean, people usually come in because they have typically challenges. What I do in the community is I try to, you know, debunk and demystify therapy and take away the stigma that I'd like you to come in and celebrate your life versus just coming in for a challenge. But that's what often brings people into therapy is a crisis situation. We talk about anxiety in relationships. It always makes me curious because anxiety is really an attachment style. And, you know, attachment styles are things that can predict who you're going to be romantically involved with in 20 years later. Right. Because they're formed, you know, when we're children from 0 to 5. And so depending on, you know, your circumstances, what happens to you can develop an anxious attachment style, an avoidant attachment style, a disorganized attachment style. And. Or you can be a combination of those things. Right. And so when it's anxious, it likely means you've romantically been involved with someone who's avoidant. So then that person's gonna be like, do you love me now? Do you love me now? Do you love me now? And the avoidance says, oh, my God, that's too much for me. I gotta get the heck outta here. And they're usually more of people that are, like, emotionally independent. [00:04:58] Speaker B: Yeah. But do sometimes these people still work, though, even though. I mean, opposites attract? Sometimes, I would imagine. And even in healthy relationships, there is some anxiety. How can you. Can someone distinguish, let's say, between intuition and insecurity? [00:05:17] Speaker A: Oh, gosh. Well, intuition is more of a wisdom and a knowing. Right. Insecurity is a discomfort. Okay, Right. And when there's discomfort, you might be operating in what we call cognitive distortions, which might be the overthinking, the ruminating, magnifying, catastrophizing things. Right, Right. So two very different energies. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. I'm going to give you an example for one. Like, so in. In my marriage with my wife, and this is an ongoing issue probably with me. And I try. I try and manage. It is. So we have a. A family cat. His name is Garnet. He's like an orange furball. Right. Like, he's like, sort of like, looks like Garfield. And, you know, we've been. We. We've loved this cat for a long time. We've had him probably, I think it's 19 years now. Traveled across the country. [00:06:07] Speaker A: Wonderful. [00:06:07] Speaker B: And he's. He's really getting. He. I think we checked. Yeah, we googled it yesterday. He's 92 in human years. And so I get this, you know, feeling at times because I know he means the world to my wife. Right. And I'm like, ah, okay, you have a cat in the house. I have to. And so she, you know, that it changes what we're doing with his. With his. Let's say, his eating patterns, they're different than the amount of water in the food. Should be a certain amount. And then that changes. And then that makes me walk on eggshells because I know the cat means the world to her. And to me, it's like, I love having him in the house, but holy moly, I'm afraid of doing anything wrong because this cat can sometimes mean more than the husband. That's just a, you know, a joke. But she, hey, he gets more kisses at the end of the day. Like, you know, I don't know. So how do you. What do you. What would you tell someone like myself that might have a similar experience that might be. Maybe there's someone in the house that has a pet that had. And. And they want something so bad, but the other partner doesn't. But it ends where. How do you draw boundaries there? [00:07:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So you're talking about, you know, it's Garnet, right? [00:07:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:20] Speaker A: But this could be a phone. This could be children. This could be, you know, sex and intimacy. This could be what we call third parties. Right, Right. And so what happens between a couple when that tension builds? Right. That's where intimacy is. Right. And that trust and safety, that I could share something with you, that you're not going to abandon me or reject me. [00:07:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:45] Speaker A: And so when you're talking about sort of walking on eggshells, right. There might be something underneath that that's like, you know, you said he gets more kisses than me at the end of the day. Right. When you're not feeling appreciated or recognized by your partner. And that's where, you know, some of those conflicts might, you know, rest for couples where they're actually not talking about the actual things they need to be talking about like, I miss you, I miss my best friend, I miss the time we spent together. And sometimes our lives can, you know, kind of get, you know, taken over by some of those third party things. [00:08:19] Speaker B: Right, right. So, you know, in terms of partners effectively like supporting each other when it comes to one another, when, let's say one, one person is struggling with anxiety without becoming their therapist, what can the, what can the other partner do that isn't struggling with the anxiety? [00:08:38] Speaker A: Yeah. So one of the things I think people forget is talking is the best medicine. Right. You don't have to be your partner's therapist, but you can say, hey, how can I support you in that? Is there something that I can do for you right now? And then also help them with some exposure. Right. So let's say someone's dealing with some social stuff and they don't like to go out to parties or they feel uncomfortable in big crowds. And you say, well, you know, I'm going to be there and I'll stay closer to you at the party or, you know, you're holding their hand or you can, you know, touch their shoulder like, and make sure you're in close proximity. So you can do some things to support, support them without actually, you know, doing things for them that takes away their capability or their capacity to, to feel safe. [00:09:18] Speaker B: Right. So exposure therapy is something that you enhance and sort of preach to your clients. [00:09:24] Speaker A: That's actually what mental health is, right, Is learning how to feel that discomfort and sitting in that and growing that resilience. [00:09:32] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, that's a good thing. And that's difficult. Some people, they always want to avoid it, but if you just sort of let yourself sit in it and, and because feelings, they change constantly throughout the day and at different days a different feeling. [00:09:45] Speaker A: And so we're filtering thousands of feelings. [00:09:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's good to know. Another thing I wanted to sort of mention here today, and this is probably a big one that you get a lot, we touched on it a little earlier here. It was intimacy within a marriage or long term relationship. So in your experience, Dr. Mary, what are some of the biggest obstacles to emotional intimacy between long term partners? [00:10:15] Speaker A: Gosh. I think what people forget is when I say marriage, I'm talking about the union of two people. And that can look very differently for, for many people. So when we think of being a parent, Right. The marriage is more important than children. And when I say that, it sort of ruffles people's feathers. That's the hub of family life. Right. And you know, if you, if you don't nurture that, if you don't take care of it, then it's going to suffer. Right. [00:10:47] Speaker B: And can you say that one more time? [00:10:49] Speaker A: If you don't take care of it. [00:10:50] Speaker B: The marriage, what did you say? [00:10:52] Speaker A: The marriage is more important than the children. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Wow. [00:10:56] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:57] Speaker A: Doesn't mean we neglect our children. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's more important because children will learn all they need to know from the hub of that couple. Right. And so they, they learn how to be affectionate, they learn how to laugh, how to play, they learn boundaries. They learn, you know, how to relate to men and women. And so it's super important. Right. So that's why you have to remember that you were also sexual beings before you had children. [00:11:24] Speaker B: Right? [00:11:24] Speaker A: Right. And love only takes us this far, and then the rest is work. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:29] Speaker A: You have to put the time, effort and energy like we do in other things. Right? [00:11:35] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. [00:11:38] Speaker A: So imagine putting all that effort, energy behind the marriage. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:42] Speaker A: Like you do with the cat. [00:11:43] Speaker B: Then it would, it would thrive. Right. Even more. Right. It could be like. Well, you know, I think it's also. Yeah. You'd probably have to. What you recommend is, you know, you take your vehicle for an oil change. You're managing the issue. You got to manage your marriage. Right. You got to still have date nights, you got to plan nights away or, you know, a weekend away or whatnot with your partner. [00:12:04] Speaker A: I think even have to be away. Right? Yeah, but you should be having daily check ins with your partner. Part of that check in might be logistical. Things like who's dropping who off, picking up milk. But it's the check in of how are you doing and how am I doing and then how are we doing together? [00:12:23] Speaker B: Right. That's important. Yeah, for sure. How does vulnerability play into developing, like, deeper intimacy? And why is it often so difficult for us? [00:12:35] Speaker A: It's so difficult because it's scary. Because if I actually tell you something deep and intimate about me, the fear is you're going to reject me or abandon me. And if you really knew me, you wouldn't want to be with me. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Right. That's the fear. Yeah. The judgment. Yeah. So if we remove judgment in a marriage to the a certain degree, it could probably last, right? [00:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, it would be about, you know, we think of intimacy. What does that equal? It equals safety and trust. So you can't have intimacy unless you have that feeling of safety and trust that I could Say that to you and you're not going to run away from me or you're not going to abandon me, right? [00:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Or what about blowing up at the person? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That too. What are some signs that a couple's physical intimacy issues are. Are rooted in emotional disconnection? And you may have touched on this already. What? There's one. Yeah. [00:13:36] Speaker A: What I would always say to couples is, you know, go check things out physiologically. Yeah, right. Go check out. Make sure everything's working, all your parts are working. And then the doctor will likely say, go see somebody and talk about it. Right. And I love that because it's not what's bothering you. It's. It's likely who's bothering you. So there's. All of our stress is relational stress. [00:14:00] Speaker B: Relational stress. [00:14:01] Speaker A: So when I say talking is the best medicine if we don't talk about those things. Right. Like, we haven't had sex in six months. [00:14:09] Speaker B: So. And then. And. And what? So what. What do you say to a couple that hasn't had sex in six months, then? What's the number? What's the first thing you're gonna. [00:14:17] Speaker A: First of all, nobody wants to actually talk about it. So that's one of the questions that I asked. When was the last time you had, you know, physical intimacy? And. And they're chomping at the bit because everybody wants to talk about it. Right. And men and women are very different when it comes to sex and intimacy. Right, Right. And so sometimes, you know, and this is sort of where those. When we talk about languages of love come in. Right. There's physical touch, there's words of affirmation, acts of service, gifts, and spending quality time together. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:50] Speaker A: And often what happens in relationships is we give the language of love that we're good at to our partner rather than the one that they want from us. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:14:59] Speaker A: And so that's where it kind of gets confusing because I might be doing all these acts of service for you, and that's not your top language of love. So now I don't feel appreciated or recognized by my partner. Whereas they're saying like, well, we do these things because we have to do these acts of service. I want spending quality time with you. So when I don't get that, you know, then I'm disgruntled or I'm, you know, silent or avoidant. [00:15:25] Speaker B: Right. What do you say to couples that are having trouble being creative with these date nights there? It's the same old same. You know, it's either a movie or they're they're going to dinner, maybe they have setbacks. Is there, is there dating advice that you give to other people and in within marriages that is like, hey, this is something different and couples should try. [00:15:52] Speaker A: Absolutely. There is no excuse for couples not to be creative. When you have a phone and social media. There's, you know, what's that expression like TikTok made me do it. Right. So you can find anything and everything and you know, have experiences with your partner. What I would say, if you're going to do an activity together, make sure it's not an activity that you're, that you're, that one partner's an expert and the other one isn't because it wouldn't be any fun for the person who's not the expert in it. So try to do something that is a first experience for both of you because it'll help, help with, you know, connectedness. You'll be able to laugh with each other, get some playback in there, you know, and it's a really feel good feeling. And then you can talk about it after over a bite to eat or things like that. What the experience was like for either one of you. [00:16:43] Speaker B: Exactly. What do you think in terms of. And this could go along with trying to find a creative new date spot for couples in long term relationships. But couples that are trying to reignite the flame, like the passion, you know, in the honeymoon phase has long passed. What, what would you say to that? [00:17:05] Speaker A: So if you want to honeymoon your whole life together, which you should be, you know, what I would say is have those hard conversations when you're dating. Yeah, right. So then once you're in a long term committed relationship with somebody and you've deepened that commitment, now you get to have fun because you've established what that looks like for the both of you. You, perhaps you've set some goals and sometimes we forget, like we become complacent in our relationship. We stop putting that effort behind, you know, those special little touches that we did. You know, there's a great book called the Love Dare that you can challenge yourself. It's a 40 day challenge. [00:17:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:17:44] Speaker A: And you can do the dare and there's a reflection piece and that might jumpstart some things. It's something that you do without your partner knowing and then you can kind of see the, you know, reactions to your partner and the gestures that you're doing. But again, talking is the best medicine if there's something missing. If, you know, your life is busy. A lot of times what happens for women is they dive into their children's lives and family life, you know, and so the other partner feels like, you know, maybe they're missing out on something, they're not getting the same kind of attention, you know, and sometimes we can, you know, slowly, slowly that distance is created, you know, and then we need to kind of fill in that gap afterwards. And sometimes you might need a professional, you know, to help you with that kind of, you know, do some redirecting or repair and tweak that. Other times, couples can, you know, just start by doing things slowly. Those check ins, how you greet yourself, you know, when you come home from work, right before you go to bed. All those things take, you know, minutes just to, you know, jumpstart that connection. [00:18:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Here's an example for you that I was just thinking off the top of my head as you were talking to me about that is that, that let's say couples, for instance, they, as an example, a couple is coming to you for relationship advice and they got two, three little ones at home. They don't know what to do in terms of ignite, like in terms of having someone watch the kids. They don't have any close family nearby and they can't get that experience like you're talking about, maybe go out and, you know, if you're on vacation, summer, do a hike and. But they can't even take the vacation because they have, you know, the children with them at all times. It seems like. What, what are you saying in those scenarios where they, where they feel like date night is almost impossible? [00:19:42] Speaker A: Gosh, again, I, I had three children myself and I would, and I fostered four teenage girls at the same time in our home. So we had seven children and I had a home office. And so after I would work, I would come upstairs and Jim would have two Tim Hortons coffees waiting for me after. Well, not two for me, but one for each of us. And we'd have our mini, you know, date night sort of connection time after the children went to bed. [00:20:10] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:10] Speaker A: You know, other things couples can do is, you know, what if it's a Saturday night, feed the kids, you know, early or, you know, when they have their dinner and then have a special, you know, you know, take in dinner for, or take out dinner for the two of you after they've gone to bed. So there's other things you can do to create those experiences. You can, if you have a deck, you know, set the table out on the deck and you know, you have a baby monitor and put it on and you can hear what's going on inside. So again, it doesn't take a lot of money, it doesn't take a lot of time to put some energy behind, you know, spending time with your partner. You may not have tons of time, but remember one of those languages of love is quality time. [00:20:51] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:20:51] Speaker A: And if we're making, you know, the effort, effort behind that, everybody's going to feel recognized, appreciated, and then they don't feel like they have to control things or get reactive or withdraw. So pretty important stuff to keep that going along the way. [00:21:06] Speaker B: What are your thoughts on scheduling sex? [00:21:10] Speaker A: Gotta do it. [00:21:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what you percent. [00:21:13] Speaker A: You know, it's lovely if it happens spontaneously, but it's likely never going to happen in your scenario. With three small kids, you've worked, you've now come home, dinner activities. Unless you put it in the calendar to say tonight, like our word was jiggy, jiggy. So the kids were small, they didn't know. Now, now they're older and they get, they, you know, they'll hear it. But it was like jiggy, jiggy tonight. [00:21:37] Speaker B: That's what I think. [00:21:37] Speaker A: And it's on, it's in the calendar. So again, it's fun. And then what happens is everybody's kind of on their best behavior. It's a little flirty, you know, we're feeling frisky, we've got a zip in our step, right? And so it makes up for a good lead up. And then get creative because sometimes when you're putting the kids to bed, you're tired. It may not always be the best time before bed because you're winding down. So think of other times. People take a day off for silly things. Coordinate with your partner to take a day off while the kids are in school and go have some fun, you know, have sex in the afternoon. Don't be afraid to change it up a little bit. It doesn't have to be, you know, status quo or rigid or it only has to be one way. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Right, right. Makes sense. Practical daily habits. I wanted to speak to you about for couples and them developing to reduce anxiety and foster intimacy at the same time. Do you have any suggestions on that? [00:22:43] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I think sometimes. And it's really hard, right, because life does get busy. But what's important through our journeys together, right? For women, if they feel like they have to take care of their partner, their partner becomes less attractive to them. If I have to pick up after you, if I have to remind you, if you're at the grocery store and you're asking me what Kind of pickles to buy. Like those kinds of things are going to wear and tear on your marriage. Same, you know, for women. Right. If, you know, they're not available to their partners, if they're not emotionally connected to their partner, that distance is going to grow. Right. So again, talking is the best medicine. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:30] Speaker A: If you have those lines of communication open, I say feel, feel the fear and do it anyways, you know, because then that way at least the communication is there. You can't say, I didn't, you know, talk to you about these things. And you don't want to be blindsided because separation and divorce is really high. And when people come in for, you know, therapy, it's usually at when they're sort of at their end of their rope. And it's like, if you can't help us, then we may not be together. And that really impacts children. Right. That's the gift that keeps on giving to them. And we want to avoid that as much as we can. Doesn't mean doesn't happen to people, you know, but there's a lot of effort like that goes into keeping marriages thriving. [00:24:12] Speaker B: How does the fear of being truly known, like warts and all, impact a couple's ability to connect deeply? [00:24:21] Speaker A: That's a big question. And it could probably go really deep. Sorry. Because people, you know, come with the stuff. Right. When we come together with somebody, you know, initially it's, you're cute, I'm cute, let's be cute together. And then what really draws people in is a subconscious magnet. You feel familiar to me. And it's likely from our early childhood experiences. [00:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:47] Speaker A: And so that's what brings a couple together. So we come in with some baggage. So when you said, said earlier about, you know, can people grow from their attachment styles? They absolutely can. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:57] Speaker A: Because they're malleable, even though they're formed biologically. And then what happens is, as I grow emotionally and relationally, the hope is that your partner wants to do that with you as well. So you can get healthier and healthier in those attachment styles and, you know, have less conflict or less triggering that happens in those relationships. Relationships. [00:25:19] Speaker B: What advice would you give, let's say, to somebody who's, let's say, feels their partner is pulling away but isn't sure if it's real or anxiety driven? Do you, like, check with them? Do you just say to yourself it's just anxiety or what would you. [00:25:36] Speaker A: Well, if you feel like it depends on the patterns of your relationship. Right. I think if you're always together and you're doing things and then all of a sudden there's this movement away from the relationship. Of course I'd be questioning it. [00:25:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:49] Speaker A: Is that person, you know, having some, you know, career issues? Are they depressed? You know, did something happen? Did we have a conflict? Right. And that's why those check ins are so important, because if you're doing them daily, you're doing them voluntarily. So you're coming together to always make sure that relationship is healthy. And if there is an issue that's coming up, it's not threatening now. Right. Because we're coming together to do this. And the hope is that you're going to clear the air in those moments. And if it requires more attention, then you would make a deal to revisit that. You know, maybe after children go to bed or when we have more time, you're going to schedule a deeper conversation. [00:26:29] Speaker B: Right. Dr. Mary Morano, you've covered quite a bit here today. I'm so grateful for everything you've touched on. Is there anything you think that in this sort of realm that we've talked about that the world needs to hear more? I'll leave that up to you. Like that. You would. [00:26:49] Speaker A: I would say relationships aren't that hard. We make them hard. [00:26:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:53] Speaker A: Right. So don't forget to put effort, energy, because when you put that kind of action out there, you're going to see the results. Right. You're going to reap the rewards, the benefits of a thriving, healthy relationship. [00:27:06] Speaker B: Fantastic. Where can, if anyone wants to book an appointment with yourself and for a session or more, you know, sort of get in touch with you online? Is there any. What's the best, best method to get in touch with you? [00:27:19] Speaker A: Yeah, the clinic is called Life and Family Counseling and we're located in Vaughan. You can find me all over social media at marymorano and my Mary Minutes. [00:27:29] Speaker B: Yes, Merry minutes. [00:27:30] Speaker A: Those are great informative and quirky things that are happening on there. So we try to have fun and also give you some education at the same time. [00:27:39] Speaker B: Fantastic. That's Dr. Mary Morano. Thank you so much for being here today and thank you so much for watching, listening wherever. Get your podcast certainly means a lot. Don't forget to like and subscribe. This has been awareness episode number 12 for producer Mike. I'm Rob Daniels. We'll see you in the next episode.