Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign family and friends. And welcome to another episode of Awareness the Podcast fostering a more compassionate, empathetic and accepting society. Yours truly here, Rob Daniels with you, Virginia. This is officially episode number 11.
Episode 11. Incredible.
So thank you so much for watching, listening to this podcast, wherever you happen to get your podcasts. Appreciate if you could subscribe and it would certainly mean a lot. Of course. We're doing some great things with mental health here with Awareness, the podcast. And before we get things going, I want to give a quick shout out to my good buddy Ben Davey. He was actually on an earlier episode of Awareness with.
If you do like a little bit of an awareness rewind, you can catch his episode. He's the play by play guy for the Berry Bay Cats. This week he's doing the Sunrise Challenge with camh so you can watch all of his Sunrise Challenge videos. I believe he was somewhere in the downtown Toronto core today and in the city of Vaughan yesterday. And I'm sure he's got more routes planned, so follow him. Ben Davey on Facebook and I am Bendavi on Instagram. And you'll be happy you did. Right now, I'm happy to introduce to you our very next guest. And she is, you know, I, I, I didn't want to really screw up her, her last name. We talked about this off, off the podcast. We were like, I'm like, can you, can you say my last name? She said to me, lisa. And I'm like, I'm gonna try. So let's see if I get this correct right off the hop on the pod.
Lisa McManmon. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thankfully, Lisa McManmon. And Lisa McManmon, I'm telling you, I'm chatting with a hero in every sense of the word. Her name is Lisa. And you know, this is the thing, and this is why I started this show, is because I want people to relate and be able to share their story when it comes to mental health, their journey, what they've done in their life, their lives, livelihood, their everyday struggles, how they've overcome, how they manage. So Lisa, she used to be a nurse at SickKids in Toronto. And you, you may have had, you know, a visit there with your family for a child, and one day she wasn't able to do the job any longer. Now, she started in, in 2008, so stopped working in 2011. So that's what, about 2017? So wait, you were there for 10 years? What is that my math?
[00:02:57] Speaker B: Just shy of 10 years.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Just shy of 10 years as a nurse working at sick kids In Toronto, which is an incredible run if you ask me. After everything you go through on a day to day basis, there is got to be challenging for sure.
So what I would like to ask from you is like, why don't you walk us through your nursing story. I mean, your bravery to continue to serve in that field for as long as you could and why you ultimately had to move on from that career.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So I did my nursing degree and then started working in 2008. I was a new graduate higher, so. So I had extra protected training and then I worked on an organ transplant unit at SickKids for three years and then I transitioned to the pediatric ICU.
Was there for six years.
And I just, I always loved working with kids.
I was, you know, into babysitting and I was a swimming instructor and a lifeguard and I worked at day camps.
So for me, I always liked the sciences and healthcare and working with kids.
And I went for, unfortunately a very kind of tough place to work.
I did it as long as I could. I loved it. I enjoyed going to work.
And then eventually my.
My body said no more. My nervous system, my brain, everything just said no more in 2017.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: And so you. But you were in which units? The. You split that time up was between.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: So it was an organ transplant unit.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: So an inpatient kind of more long term.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: Area for kids age newborn up to 18.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: And then I went down to the critical care unit which is split into a cardiac ICU and a med surg icu.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: So I was on the med surg side. So anyone who needed an organ transplant or car accidents or meningitis or, you know, really bad flu or RSV for the babies.
So yeah, we saw a huge range of diagnoses and conditions.
And that's what I liked about it though. It was always something new and it kept me on my toes. And it was a one to one patient assignment usually.
So we had the intubated, sedated, tons of drains, tons of monitors, infusions and.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Medications and it's infusions. Wow, that's. Actually, I can relate to that. I do some of those for chronic pain, actually. Are we talking about like lidocaine and ketamine? That type of.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah, ketamine, Fentanyl.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: Oh boy.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: Hydromorphone.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: Hydromorphone.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: Inotropes or vasopressors. So like the epinephrine. Yes, the norepi and the dopamine infusions and.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah, to keep.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah, just literally a minute by minute infusion to help maintain someone's blood pressure, say.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: To help maintain their heart rate at a stable level.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: What are the dopamine infusions? That's interesting.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: So dopamine is just a different inotrope, a different vasopressor. So it increases your blood pressure. It's nothing to do with like dopamine responders and like, you know, ADHD kind of stuff.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: So it's nothing to do with like your cardiovascular system. Okay. Nothing to do with helping with like, depression.
No, no, no, this is okay.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: I think it's. We used to call it like a squeezer. It helps with your, your diastolic and.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: Systolic pressure in your heart, but ultimately you had to call it quits. I'm sure not calling it quits from helping people in general in your life and being purposeful, but ultimately your everyday job. And, and what was the exact diagnosis that you had to.
Well, that you went through and you have. And that you feel like revealing here today?
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm an open book.
So I went off work. I just thought something was wrong. I had all these physical symptoms. No appetite, couldn't sleep, was just starting to feel really down, no energy.
And so I went to my family doctor, eventually went off work on just like a sick leave for two weeks and then eventually started my way through the process of seeing the psych psychiatrist and a psychologist and getting a PTSD diagnosis with major depressive disorder.
Yeah, and I'm going to say the major depressive disorder has thankfully lifted. I'm on medication and the ptsd, I don't know if this is a real term or not, but I like to say that it's in remission right now.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: It's in remission.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: It's not actively hijacking my life every.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Day, which it was at the beginning, totally was. For how many? For how long?
[00:07:52] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. I'd say the really, really acute stuff was probably for two years.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: Two years?
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Of like.
So I used to be super fit and active and I wore my Fitbit and I saw in a, like a two to three month span, my resting heart rate when I was sleeping jumped 20 beats per minute on average. So like just my, my, my resting state was jacked up.
My blood pressure was higher. I was physically trembling. Like, I always kind of joked that I was like a scared Chihuahua in a corner. Like I was shaking. I would startle really easy.
I was having nightmares. I was insomniac. Like, I couldn't sleep at all. I was trying to take medications for it and it just, it was it was a long time.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: Long battle and then that, you know, the depression on top of it. And I lost of a lot, a lot of weight and I couldn't be active because I was a very highly physically active person before. I thought that helped my mental health and then that was taken away.
I just, yeah, my, my body couldn't handle the extra stress load of, of exercise. So I became. So the entire lifestyle completely crumbled and changed.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: And you were just off work instantly for those two years, every single day?
[00:09:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've been off work since, since 2017. So I've reached my eight year mark, which is wild to me that it's been that long.
But yeah. And so another thing was because it was a work related injury, we're calling it, I.
My doctor advised me to apply for wsib.
[00:09:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: And they have a psychological trauma wing. They have like the physical injury wing and then they have their psychological injuries.
So I, it was a bit of a process. I think it took about three months. I had to kind of prove my case. But I got approved for wsib, which was huge because I therefore had income.
[00:09:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: Coming in.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that's.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:51] Speaker A: Wow. So you.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: I lived on my own at the time. I pretty much had to return home and move in with my mom because like I was not functioning.
She. She recalls that I was like a shell of a person, like a ghost just floating around her house.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: But with sick kids doing what they do and the compassion that they provide. I want to know, do they show that same compassion to their employees? Like, what did they do for you in that two year span?
[00:10:17] Speaker B: They didn't provide a ton of support.
I think they weren't like, like they weren't really sure what to do with me. They treated me like a physical injury. Having to fill out kind of evaluation forms and questionnaire forms about like, how long can I stand? How long can I sit?
[00:10:35] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: But I was like, this isn't a back injury. This is, this is a mental health injury.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: So yeah, they were, they weren't the greatest. They didn't really provide a lot of support. Like I called the EAP line that they provide.
That was just someone to kind of listen to. But I had to find my own therapist.
I had to like prove my WSIB case. They kind of, they kind of fought at me against it and then.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Not overly supportive. I don't know if things have changed since I've left. I hope so, but.
But yeah, that is one thing I'd like to Maybe venture into is see if I can keep contact with someone there and be like, can we start some kind of mental health.
Yeah, support, even peer support program or something. I believe they have implemented that but I haven't been there for a long time so I'm not sure.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: Hey, maybe that's your new purpose in life. Maybe.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:32] Speaker A: I mean you also.
I want to know basically like talk about what you personally found to be the most helpful treatments when you dealt with post traumatic stress disorder. Like was there anything specific that you'd recommend to anyone else that might be going through it? That is going through it.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Let's say definitely find yourself a good therapist. I know those are hard to find, but they are popping up a heck of a lot more than they were before. A trauma informed, trauma trained.
I saw a psychotherapist and because there's a lot of differentiation between. I never knew the difference between a psychiatrist, psychologist and psychotherapist.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Feel free to reveal there is a.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: Difference between all three psychiatrist.
My opinion is they are the pill pusher. They will give you the diagnosis and they will give you medication. The psychologist is more of the therapist kind of role. They cannot prescribe, but they can provide therapy and talk to you. They are OHIP covered as well as psychiatrists. And then psychotherapists are not OHIP covered but they're the therapists. They provide the talk therapy and other modalities but they are not usually covered. So you to pay out of pocket for the them unless you have health benefits.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: Unless you have. Yeah, which I did.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: But I exhausted very quickly because a session is like.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very expensive. I know, I know. I mean mental health is just sort of gradually, you know, moving forward with that and trying to be a bit more compassionate. Like I've noticed they, They've got that 247 line emergency line. Do you know what it is? Often it's the tech there. I saw a sign on the highway, driver 211211. That's it. Yeah, yeah. Call it anytime.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Emergence mental health crisis. Call call 21 1.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, but I know what you mean. That it should be in this day and age more affordable, especially after what we've gone on within the last five years in this world. It's. The world needs more of that. Right, so there you go.
What would you say to, let's say any former colleagues that you.
I mean is there, is there any former colleagues that you keep in touch with from there?
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I have a few friends.
One one in particular she's Actually off work as well with ptsd. She's about four years into her journey, and we used to work together in the icu. So just the fact that right there, you are not alone. You are not the only one. You are not crazy. You are not broken.
It happens. Paramedics, firefighters, police are all considered to have a traumatic job.
We do, too. And I know even back in the day, my doctor said to me, oh, but you're a nurse. You knew what you signed up for. And that was like a slap in the face because I was like, well, so do paramedics, and so do firefighters. And, you know, we see people on their worst day as well, and we deal with children.
And from my experience, because I've been in a lot of peer support groups with first responders, they. Most of them always say their worst calls are the ones involving children, and my entire career involve children. So I. I think that kind of gives a little insight into the trauma and the stuff we would see. But. But yeah, just to say, like, reach out to a therapist. Talk. Tell someone, talk about it.
There's. Yeah, tell your. Tell your boss, tell your doctor and just kind of get the ball rolling.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: Because I think of this, though, as a.
It's very immediate when you're. When you're working your job, like, you got to be on the ball and out of any. Like, the focus has got to be so sharp for what you did.
So I got to think, mental health wise, when you're working your job and you got diagnosed, was there a specific trigger there that you can pinpoint a certain scene you saw that you were like, this is what did me in.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: In, like, in hindsight, yes. When it happened, I wasn't like, this was the worst thing I've ever seen. It was kind of a newish experience for me. I don't want to get into the dirty details, but.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: What can you bring into awareness from that?
[00:15:53] Speaker B: It was the first time I've seen a code be stopped and a declaration of death on the spot. I hadn't experienced that as a nurse.
We usually always can get a return of circulation back until then and stabilize them and then start to do the kind of preparation of death, get the family there, do commemorative memorial things.
But that didn't happen. And it was all very sudden and yeah, like, call the time of death. And I was kind of. And myself and the parents were very much like, what? Wait, what. What we need to do more.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So that was very kind of jarring, I think, to my. To my psyche and my system. And yeah. And then there was another event that happened a month later and that one I recall when I got home from my shift, my 12 hour shift, saying to a friend, like, oh my God, I feel like my senses were assaulted today.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:54] Speaker B: Like sight, smell, touches, like. Yeah. I just was overwhelmed.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: It's a lot. It brings back, I'm sure, a lot of triggering memories. So you're strong for doing this? 150%. So what do you, what do you do to sort of. If you go back into those thoughts, like if you're talking now and I notice, like.
And I do this as well, where you sometimes have these deep breaths. Do you do breath work a lot?
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So a lot of my healing has been a lot of trial and error.
I've always kind of loved body work and this, you know, physiology of stuff. And so I've gotten a lot into somatics. I'd say somatic healing, somatic movements, meditation, shaking things out. Because I found I was like kind of frozen and stuck.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:17:46] Speaker B: A lot. So even in therapy, my therapist had me practice saying like, no and putting my hands out.
[00:17:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: And like that would cause bawling.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: And panic attacks and whatever. But yeah, somatics, I'd say, has been a big help. Learning about the nervous system has been a big help because I always knew about the nervous, like the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: But just knowing about. There's different movements and exercises and like your vagus nerve. Humming, singing, chanting, deep breathing.
I can meditate now. I couldn't before.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: My. Literally I remember closing my eyes and I would see fireworks in my head. Like everything was just too.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: I noticed that sometimes too, I tried it. Yeah. And, and, yeah. Or there's just, you see, I don't know, almost like that, like a snowy TV screen. Sometimes when you close your eyes and it's just like, like when the power's out or something. Sometimes that happens. But it's in like orange and red or something. I don't know. Yeah, I guess we.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So back, you know, a couple of years ago, I found I. People kept saying, meditate, meditate. I was like, I can't. So I had to start with like literally 30 seconds.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: Or like 15 seconds. And then build up progressively to like a minute or two minutes. Right now I'm going to say I'm proud to say I can do 15 minutes.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: That's incredible.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: I put on my solfeggio frequencies.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Which is like a singing bowl kind of thing. And And I have a little eye pillow and I lay on my spiky mat and I just like.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: Meditate for 15 minutes. I set a timer and.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: Do you listen to any music or.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: That's what the frequencies are.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: Oh, the like tones.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: That's another thing I've gotten into. I'm going to say I've ventured into a lot of like the stuff I used to call woo woo.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: And like the spiritual stuff. But it's definitely helped me reconnect to my body. I was so cut off from myself.
Yeah. From like. Because even just at work, working 12 hour shifts in the ICU, you couldn't leave the bedside unless you had someone covering you. Right. So your desire to eat, to drink, to go use the bathroom couldn't just be whenever you wanted. Like you'd literally sometimes had to ask permission as an adult. Can I go to the bathroom, please?
And oh, no. Can you wait an hour?
[00:20:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: So like I said, I was cut off from the neck down for a long time because I was all in my head and I was like never connected to my body.
So it's taken a long time to build that trust and that connection back with myself again.
[00:20:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I bet.
You know, I just wanted to quickly touch on one of the last couple things here is I've talked to a couple of nurses that they're sort of shying away from wanting to be on this program because of the fact that health. The health crisis. There is a crisis, I would say, in the US with nurse shortages. Do you know anything about that at all? Like with the nursing nurses being treated the way they are in the US compared to Canada. Do you know any of that at all? Not fully, no. Okay.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: I've never worked in the States. I don't really know.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: Yeah. But right now, do you feel like in Canada we still need some improvements? Because the U.S. i think, needs a ton. Yeah.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, for sure. We.
I follow ona's like Instagram and stuff and they're right now pushing for ratios, safe ratios, staffing ratios.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:12] Speaker B: Because they keep trying to get away with having less and less nurses and then therefore like 7, 8, 9 patients per nurse.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Which is unheard of.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: Sick kids was very nice. That the max patient load you'd ever have was three.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: Three to four. And then in the icu it was one to two, depending.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: I just can't imagine you were on your feet for 12 hour shifts for that. And you, you must have good running shoes back then.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: Yes, I did. I wear orthotics. And sometimes even compression stockings.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Compression. Yeah, because it's a lot. Because.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a lot. And then like the bending and the, like, you would have to roll your, by patients over every four hours so they don't get bed sores because they're not moving.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Right. So.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: And like changing diapers on a teenager is a lot of work. Right. So you have to like, you're reaching and it's a very physical, physically demanding job, especially the night shifts too.
You know, staying up for 12 hours and.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: Fighting your body, wanting to sleep at 3am and trying to sleep during the day. It was. Yeah, it's very unnatural.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: And my, yeah, my system just couldn't take it anymore.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Well, I must say I have to thank you for your service, for working in healthcare, because you probably, I don't know if you got enough credit. Maybe you did, maybe you did, but I don't think think you get, you can't say enough thanks for the, the type of work that you, you did, you still want to do, but, or you know, it's, maybe you can help your family members. But I, I know what, you know, you did eight or nine years, which. Nine years. Nine years. So like you served like such an incredible purpose which not many people can say they've done. And that's like very, you know, it's something you should be totally proud of, you know, regardless of what happened with, you know, the ptsd.
So you've turned your nursing license in and you're feeling stabilized, you're feeling healthier now.
What do you, I mean, you're still very young. Like, do you have anything planned? What's next for you? Do you still like, plan to work in another field? Is there a profession?
[00:23:15] Speaker B: So I'm kind of exploring that right now.
I, like, I, I'm calling it medically retired my nursing license. I did that just at the beginning of this year in January 2025.
So I'm no longer a registered nurse and I've been locked into my WSIB benefits. So I receive those until I'm 65 years old.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: And then, yes, I, I, I'm almost 40, so I still have like another whole career left in me, I think.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: So I have given myself permission though this year to just kind of relax and not put pressure on, because WSIB at one point was putting pressure on return to work, return to some kind of form of employment, some kind of form of education, like a reeducation, retraining.
And every time that was brought up, it seemed to Destabilize me. So now that I've been locked in, I definitely have a lot more relief.
I can feel that. I feel lighter this, this like 20, 25, since those decisions have been made.
So, yeah. So I'm just kind of exploring this year and a couple things. Like, I'm more interested in the creative side of things, I think.
[00:24:35] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: Very, you know, medical and sciency for like my first, first act in life and then second act. I'm even dabbling with the idea of being like a sound bath facilitator.
[00:24:47] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: I've done a couple sound baths in my healing.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: What. Can you quickly explain what that is?
[00:24:52] Speaker B: That is an incredible experience. So I've done a one on one sessions with a beautiful sound bath facilitator and it includes I think seven to nine different instruments. So like the singing bowls, if you like the Tibetan bowls.
Yeah, your producers.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: And then like a gong and chimes and a rain stick and she goes for like an hour, an hour and a half maybe. And you're laying on like a massage table, really comfy, cozy. And she just does these and tuning forks and she even puts the bowls on my chest or next to my ear, like on a table.
And the sound waves and the frequency going through.
Oh, it's just. And it, there's science to it. It calms your nervous system. It I think works on your vagus nerves, I believe. But, but yeah, it just, it helped, I think downregulate me a bit. And, and yeah, I just, I found it really, really cool. And I have been kind of exploring, possibly getting training to do that.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: So why not a second career path? I think that'd be a good choice for you if it, you know, activates those brain waves that you feel like this is.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: And like we are, we are frequency. We are kind of an electronic system.
And after my first experience, I was like, I feel like a guitar that's just been tuned.
[00:26:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Like, yeah, it was really incredible.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Good. I'm happy for you and I hope it, I hope it happens.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, let's see.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: Lisa McManmon, thank you so much for dropping by Awareness today. I got to give you a hug for everything you've been through and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, incredible. I wish you all good things going forward. Okay, so there you go. It's another edition of Awareness, the podcast Fostering a More Compassionate, Empathetic and Accepting society. Episode number 11 in the books. Don't forget to like and subscribe where you can. That would certainly be meaningful for Producer Mike. I'm Rob Daniels, and we'll catch you in the next episode.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Sam.
