Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Before we get started, a quick word from our sponsor, Vox Mental Health. Vox means voice and we believe something shifts when you're safe enough to find yours. Based in Barrie and serving all of Ontario, Vox Mental Health offers trauma informed psychotherapy for individuals, couples and families.
Whether you're unpacking old narratives, navigating relationships, or working toward clarity and change, we are here to support your growth, your agency and your voice. Let's learn more @vox mental health.com hi again there and thanks so much for being here for awareness. Episode number 18, Awareness, the podcast fostering a more compassionate, empathetic and accepting society. Yours truly, Rob Daniels with you here with a very special guest via video link all the way from the desert. Today on the show we have Jiri who is joining us. Jerry south, right?
[00:01:25] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: That's okay. And I wanted to make sure I pronounced your name correctly because we've been in contact a few weeks now, but we never got to officially speak on the phone. I was in touch with your, your team at the office. So Jiri is fantastic. She's going to be teaching us a lot today when it comes to adhd. She is an ADHD specialist, teen and parent coach, Headspace Hub founder and we're going to find out the most common myths about ADHD in teens and why they can be harmful. How ADHD presents differently in teens versus kids or adults. The emotional toll that ADHD can take on self esteem, anxiety and relationships. How parents can support without micromanaging or shaming. The vital role of executive function and realistic ways to build it. Real world success stories that highlight resilience, growth and family healing and more. So whether you're a parent educator or someone curious about adhd, this episode is going to be offering some practical tools and heart centered advice to help teens feel seen, heard and empowered.
So, Jiri, I'd like to officially welcome you to Awareness, episode 18.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Well, thank you. It's great to be here.
[00:02:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm so happy to have you here to certainly perhaps find out some myths and of course the truths about adhd.
So why don't you off the top just share a little bit about what you do on a day to day basis at your clinic.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: You bet. So I work with individuals one on one. That's the bulk of what I do. So I mean, I do also, you know, get involved in IEP meetings. I will meet with, I do coach all ages. I specialize in teens and I have a story for that. I have seven children and I started bringing teenagers into my Practice when coaching saved my son's life. And I do have seven neurodivergent children. So I just kind of, you know, I'm neurodivergent. My husband is. I, I'm doing this all day long, plus, plus, you know, my clients. But I am working primarily one on one with my clients. I have a really heavy client load. You know, every day I'm working morning until night. But it's great because I'm helping children and, you know, teenagers, young adults and adults, by the way, whether they're parents or they're just an adult with adhd, I'm just seeing all ages in here. And because ADHD is, it is like a spectrum. Kind of like when we think of autism being on a spectrum, there's just so much, so many different symptoms that people deal with, things to overcome, whether it's executive functioning or self confidence. So I'm working with my clients on all kinds of different things from understanding their unique neurological system to increasing self confidence or maybe even overcoming some of the traumas they've experienced in their life which are exasperating their ADHD symptoms.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Right.
And we use the word, we use the, the short form ADHD a lot. Why don't you tell the world what that stands for for someone that may have to still look it up? What, what does ADHD stand for?
[00:04:47] Speaker A: Well, I want to highlight too, because a lot of people will actually only use the term add, Attention Deficit Disorder. And I just want to put out there that's no longer a recognized term.
And so a lot of people don't like using adhd, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, because they don't relate with that title, that H. Because, you know, 2/3 of all ADHD adults will say they don't relate with being hyperactive.
So that H in ADHD doesn't just stand for hyperactivity, it also stands for hyper arousal. So everyone now fits under the umbrella of adhd. Now we know what hyperactiv can look like. Right? But hyper arousal could be multiple thoughts at one time, overthinking, having trouble sleeping.
So most of us will either fall in the category of being hyperactive, and then the majority of us, most of us will fall into one of the two categories, but the majority of us will fall into the category of having hyper arousal, which is really just, I like to think of it as hyperactivity of the mind. The internal hyperactivity of not being able to shut the mind off.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Right. And so why the change in no longer having add?
[00:06:13] Speaker A: Well, there's lots of changes over the years. We changed the dsm. You know, years ago, we used to not think that girls could have adhd. We really looked at this as a disorder. And by the way, so many people do not like that we use the word disorder. I don't use it because I think of ADHD as a negative thing. I love that I have adhd. It's added so much quality to my life or once I've overcome the things that were holding me back. But if we're going to talk about this from a medical standpoint, the way that we look at a diagnosis, it is a disorder because there are executive function deficits. But we used to look at this disorder as hyperactive voice and just behaviors. Even now the DSM focuses on, I think there's 18 different behaviors. And ADHD is not so much what's going on the outside as what's going on on the inside. And so as time goes on, we understand more about adhd, which is really why I think there's such a prevalence in, like, how many people we used to think had ADHD, like 2 to 5% of students, when it's really more like 10 to 12%. Because we're understanding so much more about this diagnosis. We're not just looking at hyperactive boys. We now know that girls can have adhd. We used to think of ADHD as a childhood disord, when now the average age of diagnosis is 31 years old. More adults are being diagnosed with ADHD than children. And so as we learn more about this, as we learn that, yes, it's not just hyperactivity, it's hyperarousal, and most people have hyperarousal. We start to change the way that we talk about adhd. We label ADHD and so forth.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Right. So what would you say are some common misconceptions about ADHD in. In teenagers specifically that you wish more parents and educators understood?
[00:08:10] Speaker A: Well, and when we say, like, teenagers specifically, I would say that teenagers are in that. That interesting phase where they're going through puberty or hormones are raging, and so everything's intensified. But a lot of times I'll talk about the difference between children than two adults.
So there's just so many different things that can be happening at different stages of life. But I think when it comes to misconceptions about adhd, first of all, we have a lot of people who still don't believe that ADHD is real.
But understanding that ADHD isn't caused by trauma, but you are actually born with adhd, we can see it in brain scans at infancy, but the trauma will really cause more ADHD symptoms or they'll cause the symptoms to be more intense.
The other thing is that ADHD is not a disorder of not being very smart.
I think that that's a misconception because many times ADHD years will struggle in school. So if we're talking about teenagers, for example, that's when a lot of those executive function deficits start to really become noticeable. Because now you enter junior high or high school and you are required to keep track of several different classes and homework in all of the classes. Executive dysfunction deficits are like many times are geared around organizational skills and following through on things and finishing tasks. And there's a lot of that required in junior high and high school.
So that becomes a big challenge. It's not a lack of knowledge, it's in fact ADHDers generally like overall tend to have a higher IQ. It's not even really attention deficit.
It's attention inconsistency. Because people with ADHD can hyper focus on things that are important to them, things that they, I should say, that are novelty or exciting or interesting to them. They can get things done twice as fast as the average person when they can get their brain engaged. So understanding how our unique, I have adhd, our unique ADHD neurological system works is really important. If we had a school for ADHD years, which we really should, we would look at ADHD individuals, I believe so differently because they are smart, they're incredibly creative, they're not lazy, they just don't know how to get their brain engaged. Because the way that an ADHD brain gets engaged is completely different than the way a neurotypical brain gets engaged. A neurotypical brain can get engaged just because something's important or there's going to be a reward at the end for an adhder that's completely useless. So if we had a school for an ADHDer, that ADHD person would be allowed to ask as many questions, stand up, touch everything, feel it, talk about it, work in groups with partners. It's just they don't learn very well, usually in the typical, you know, the traditional school system. One other thing I want to highlight while we're talking about misconceptions or myths, this isn't so much a myth as a misunderstanding.
ADHD really struggle with self confidence, especially teenagers, because that's such a difficult time of life anyway, because you really do have to show up consistently in your life at least a large majority of the time to be confident in who you are, knowing that if somebody asks you to do something, you'll be able to see it all the way through.
ADHD struggle with that because they don't understand their, their neurological wiring. They don't understand why sometimes they can hyperfocus and get engaged and get things done, and other times they're stuck in paralysis. So it's, it's not that they want to be doing that. They don't know how to get their brain engaged. They don't know why they're stuck that way. And so, or, you know, and whatever tasks that they're doing. I'll, I'll see this a lot with ADHD teenagers is, you know, they're not doing well in math, for example, and ADHDers overall don't do very well in math usually.
And so they're, they're like failing math, they're not getting their work done, and then there's some huge exam coming up. And they know if they don't pass this exam, they're going to fail out of class or that's going to be it for them. And because urgency is one of the things that triggers the ADHD brain, they study, they take the test and they maybe they get a B. And then the teachers and the adults, the parents in their life say, see, you just weren't applying yourself. All you had to do was study. All you had to do was try. You just don't try hard enough. And that's not actually true. What's actually true is that urgency is one of those things. There's five things that gets that ADHD brain to hyper focus. So the mistake that adults make is they think because they did it that one time they should be able to do it every time.
ADHDers don't understand their brain, they don't know how to turn it on when the task in front of them is boring or overwhelming. And so that's a big part of coaching and learning about ADHD is understanding your wiring that it is different than the person you're probably comparing yourself to who is neurotypical, and then understanding how to overcome those things so that your brain will get engaged and complete the task in front of you.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: Would you say that there are some ADHD differences when it comes to, say, teenagers versus children or even compared to adults in behavior and such?
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Well, yes and no. The reason I'm sort of saying no is because some of the really extreme behaviors that I see from teenagers I have seen from kids that are in second, third, and fourth grade. I mean, adhd, another Misconception about ADHD is that it's just a disorder of hyperactivity, not being able to sit still, distractibility, when really a huge part of ADHD is emotional dysregulation. So I would say it's more common in teenagers because of hormones and puberty, that the behaviors get worse. The extreme sensitivity to rejection intensifies.
The comparing themselves to what other people can do and they can't do starts to affect their self esteem. And the executive function deficits of being in junior high and high school really start to, we start to notice that has a greater effect.
But I do see that I've had kids that I work with in elementary school that have been kicked out of, you know, three schools by the time they're in fourth grade that cannot regulate themselves. And so it's really more a matter of where is the impairment.
And usually it's with impulsivity, you know, urges. It's either like we get mad or we do things without thinking. And I see that, you know, it 8 years old and I see that at 15 years old. I think the big difference there is wherever they were at at 7, 8 years old, it's usually much, much worse without treatment by the time they become teenagers because of the things I already mentioned, like going through puberty and hormones and, and also just like, you know, like trauma has a huge effect on adhd. Well, a lot of times kids haven't been through trauma, right? Like, like, like that we think of like divorce and things like that. But there's all these little T's, little traumas, like being a kid. By the time an ADHD or by the time they're 10 years old, they've heard over 20,000 corrective messages compared to the average neurotypical child. So they've been repeatedly asked by their parents and teachers, why can't you do this? Why can't you do this? Better Comparing themselves, being embarrassed when they're called on, some of them not invited to a birthday party or not doing very well socially because they're either too much or, you know, there's lots of different things. And so all these little T's so start to add up into kind of like a big T and can cause their symptoms to go a little bit haywire when they're teenagers as well.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: What is like the main treatment? Would you say that helps someone with ADHD if they come into you or they're just seeking counseling? What is it that's gonna help them cope on a day to day basis? Is it like mindfulness? Are you teaching them those types of techniques? Just simply awareness of that they are different, but they're not, you know, any less than. Than any other human being.
What do you. What exactly do you teach them in. In therapy and treatment.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: Right. So mindfulness training, what I do is very similar to cbt, but it is. It is different as well, so. But it is a lot of mindfulness training.
I'm a behavioral coach, so I'm not a therapist or counselor. And I have to say, as someone who went through therapy and counseling when I went through my divorce, And I've had two children, not one, who have attempted suicide. All seven of my children are neurodivergent. Five of them are on the autism spectrum, and six of the seven have ADHD. And comorbidity rates are very high. With ADHD, you have a 60% likelihood of having one comorbid condition. You have a 40% likelihood of having a second comorbid condition. So you add autism, ocd, anxiety disorders into the mix, and then there's really a lot there.
But what I would say is I just lost my train of thought.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: That's okay. No problem is that. Yeah. So the best treatment.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: I would say. Yeah. So where I was going with that is I think that this is my opinion, based off of my own experience and of my children and a lot of the clients I've worked with, that I think it's really important if you're neurodivergent, that you work with someone who is neurodivergent, who isn't just neurodivergent, but has overcome the things that you're experiencing. There's a different language, there's a different understanding. I think that when someone who has adhd, for example, sets goals and is working through different things with. With somebody. Right. Who's trained to work with them, and they don't follow through. The idea is, like, okay, let's just, like, set more goals and let's talk about why we're not motivated. And there's, like, a disconnect between what's actually happening in the ADHD brain and the ADHD paralysis. So somebody who is working mindfulness training also needs to learn the ins and outs of their brain. Why am I not getting engaged? Because an ADHD person will just start to identify with, I'm not someone who follows through. I'm someone who procrastinates. I'm not very good at this. Every single ADHD person I've worked with, whether they're 65 or they're 8 years old, struggles with self confidence. For those reasons, they're comparing themselves to people who are doing it better than them. And it's really unfortunate because there's so much unrealized potential because ADHDers are so smart and creative. So I would say that aside from medication, which I don't push medication, I used to be anti medication, I'm not anymore. I think for a lot of people it's a game changer and there are a lot of people who can, who can function fine without it. But I think this piece, this emotional dysregulation, behavioral coaching, understanding your neurological system, that I think is imperative because we want to learn.
Once someone with ADHD learns how to overcome the things that are holding them back, I feel like anything is possible. ADHDers are risk takers. They're amazing entrepreneurs, they're intelligent, they're intuitive, they have so many gifts and many of them haven't tapped into those gifts because they're still stuck in the things that are holding them back.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: Right.
So in your expert opinion in terms of guiding parents, because it's got to be difficult to, I don't want to use the word deal, but just cope and manage the situation daily. With a child with adhd, how do you guide parents to support their teens without slipping into micromanaging or unintentionally shaming them?
[00:20:16] Speaker A: Right. I think this is a struggle for, for most parents. Most parents today, it's like there's a household where there's two working parents and parents are exhausted and they have a lot going on. And consistency is so important when it comes to ADHDers. ADHD ers really don't like having a schedule, but they thrive on one. And so you have to. Dr. Barkley is the one that has, has taught us that a child or a teenager, either one with ADHD is actually three years behind in age when it comes to executive function deficits. So if you have a teenager that's 15 years old, they're really operating at the level of a 12 year old. So that means when it comes to staying organized, staying on top of tasks, whether it's homework or chores, responsibilities.
So you really want to set your expectations according to that information.
And I think that because ADHD years can be a lot of work as children, they usually are struggling from impulsivity. They're doing things without thinking. I was working with a teenage boy, I think he was 16 years old, and he lit a rocket in his friend's house under the bed and burned off a huge hole in the wooden floor. I mean he's old enough to know better, but he said, I was going to, I was going to, like, make sure it went out before it went off. Like ADHD years. And especially with boys, they tend to be a little more hyperactive. They do things without thinking. They're very impulsive. They. They have two concepts of time now and not now. They're not thinking ahead into the future. So parents of ADHD children really have their work cut out for them because you, you have some hyperactivity. You have a lot of emotional dysregulation, extreme sensitivity to criticism, to teasing, to disappointing you in some way.
They're usually struggling in school in some way or another. Many times they're struggling. They can be very social and have lots of friends, but there are just as many ADHDers that struggle because maybe they're too much. They don't know how to give their peers their space.
They're just always in their face. And so that can sometimes be a problem. But you have all of these things going on, you know. So as a parent of an ADHDer, parents tend to be overwhelmed, burnt out. Being consistent is very, very difficult. But ADHD teenagers specifically benefit from a reward system over consequences. I'm big on both. I think consequences are important, but rewards that someone with ADHD is going to work harder to earn rewards, they usually thrive in leadership positions and opportunities instead of just consequences. My experience with ADHD years is when you, you just give consequences, they usually start to just give up.
So we want to implement both having consistent and really outline the rules and expectations. We don't need lots of lectures and explanations, just like, here's what it is, here's our routine. We stick to it. And then I would say the other thing is ADHDers are many times internalizing, you know, all the things they're doing wrong. We know just teenagers in general. Only one out of every ten teenagers is going to tell their parents really what's going on in their lives. And even then, it's not usually the whole truth. So that means problems with friends, how they're feeling about themselves, things that are going on at school or in their personal life. So then you add ADHD to the mix. There's so much going on in here that we don't know about. So when we see our child failing, not responding well, not having control over their emotions, I think it's a lot more helpful as a parent to be curious about why rather than just jump to the conclusion that they're being defiant and difficult and talking back.
Let's look into it a little bit more before we just run straight to discipline or consequences.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: And I guess you would say the role of practicing patience when it comes to parenting is probably a big key thing to give them more emotional regularity. Is that a big thing, would you say?
[00:24:03] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you think about how many times as a parent we're telling our children, don't yell, use your words. You're not allowed to talk to me like that. Calm down. But then parents usually will have just as much of a struggle, you know, trying to regulate themselves. So in my coaching program, when someone signs up for the program, program, the parents are required to be involved. It doesn't mean that they're going to participate in all of the sessions or need near as many, but adjusting our communication because even the most well intended parents have some things to learn, especially when it comes to neurodivergence. And another thing I'll add is that ADHD is, you know, it runs in families, so usually one of the parents will also have adhd. You have a lot of adults who have either undiagnosed ADHD or untreated ADHD struggling with many of the same things now trying to parent. I mean, if you're not good at keeping a schedule because you have ADHD and you're a little chaotic and now you're trying to teach your child how to keep a schedule and stay regulated and stay on top of like all of their classes and their homework, that can be very stressful for the parent. It's very overwhelming.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: How about the role of a service animal? I have a friend who has a son who has ADHD and, and that helped him, I believe immensely. Is that for the greater amount of children and teens that that could happen or is that just the odd child that, that, that it would help with having a service animal? Service dog, Sure.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: I don't really have to be honest, many clients who have a service animal or emotional support animal, but it doesn't mean that it's not a good idea.
I think that the big thing that stands out to me with most children and teenagers and even adults is if you haven't heard of rejection sensitivity dysphoria, it's a part of adhd. It falls under the umbrella of the emotional dysregulation. And even if your child isn't one of the more emotional children who has adhd, I would say RSD or rejection sensitivity dysphoria is going to impact every area of your life. How you respond when you're bored, when you're upset at school and relationships with your parents at home. When you're asked to do things, you know, it affects your impulsivity, how quickly, you know, you lash out or react to things. And so learning how to calm that down and change that is key.
Because not every adhder is walking around feeling depressed or lonely or not having friends. A lot of them are very social. But with rsd, about half the kids that I work with will lash out and kind of embarrass themselves and feel a tremendous amount of shame later. But just as many learn to mask, especially girls.
And that's the reason their diagnosis usually goes missed and unnoticed. They're really good at watching and kind of internalizing and then masking their symptoms. But there's still an internal reaction to the feeling of being rejected, criticized, not included, not enough. And we'll know inside that the way that we're feeling, the internal reaction that we're having is probably bigger than what this situation warrants, but we don't know how to control it or stop it. And that's where a lot of the shame and lack of self confidence comes from too, that we have no idea. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 40.
And yeah, so it's been a while now. It's been about seven or eight years. But when I was in my 20s, I had debilitating RSD. It felt like I was being clawed from the inside out and I had no idea what it was. I didn't know I had adhd. That alone can almost make you feel crazy sometimes. Like, why? Why is this always happening to me? Why do I feel this way? Why. Why is this happening in relationships? How do I control it? I can't control it. When an ADHD person can get that part under control, that in itself is a game changer because that can be so, so intense for anybody to be walking around constantly feeling these, you know, ADHD just fill their emotions so much more intensely.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: Right. Well, good on you for it seems like you're embracing, you know, the diagnosis. You're not, you know, in no means giving up. Sure, you probably have hard days, difficult days, but you, you find ways to cope, manage, and stay positive too. So good on you for that.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: Well, thank you. Yeah, I don't. I. ADHD for me now is just a gift. It's not like I'm perfect or I've overcome everything, but rsd because of the work I do, I just feel like it's not really.
It's not a factor for me anymore.
And I've been Able to tap into my strengths and I really appreciate my adhd. And it's interesting if I put something, you know, positive like that out on the Internet, on social media about adhd, you have a lot of people come out of the woodwork saying, oh well, it's ruined my life, you know, and I really feel for people who are stuck in that place. But then, you know, also if I say really negative things about adhd, which I don't do very often, just as many people will come out and say I love my adhd. So I think it really is, you know, environmental factors can affect adhd. The support system that we have is huge when it comes to ADHD or is being able to overcome these things. Having somebody that just believes in them and is patient with them can make all the difference in their well being.
And just having a really good understanding of what it is and what it isn't, we can get to a place where we have overcome these things that are holding us back and we can be incredibly successful and appreciate the good things that ADHD has to offer.
[00:29:47] Speaker B: So how do you approach then coaching teens who feel quote unquote different or who are frustrated by school systems that don't accommodate their, their learning style?
[00:30:00] Speaker A: Well, I always start with self confidence and part of that is helping them understand that they are not adhd. Most teenagers haven't separated. You know, it starts to become kind of their identity. I'm not good at this, I'm not good at that. I've never been able to do this understanding. There's a difference between the wiring and your personality and who you are. Most ADHDers will describe themselves as lazy or procrastinators. And I help them recognize like no, you're not lazy. You haven't learned about your brain. You are trying to get your brain engaged the same way the person who sits next to you in math class can get their brain engaged. And you have a completely different neurological system. So starting there so that they really understand and breaking down what they've believed is true all this time they've really believed, I'm not smart enough, I'm not good at that. Their parents are disappointed in them, their teachers are disappointed in them. Why you work harder. Why can't you do this? Why can't you stay on top of things? And they don't know why. It's like, I don't know, I guess I just can't. I'm not good at that. It's like crushing their self esteem. Helping them understand why they can't and then showing them how they can, showing them, there's an acronym we use, Novelty, interest, challenge or competition, urgency or passion. One of those five things has to be present for an ADHD brain to get engaged. And if it's not, their brain will not turn on. They didn't know that. They don't know how to turn their brain on. Their parents don't know that. They're just sitting there asking them the same questions over and over again. Why can't you do this? Why didn't you get it finished? Do you know it's important. How come it hasn't gotten done? And so once ADHDers really start to understand, listen, in the right environment, you would absolutely thrive. But since we're trying to thrive in a neurotypical environment, let's figure out how to do it. And it gives them hope for the first time, you know, because nobody has seen them the way they want to be seen. And so that's where we start, is self confidence. And then every client I work with is different. Some of them, they all just have different struggles. You have introverted ADHDers, you have extroverted ADHD years, you have some that don't have a single friend at all, and you have some that have lots of friends. So it's, it's unique and catered towards the things that they're struggling with. But if you can get them to start understanding, understanding more about adhd, it breaks apart this understanding that they've, this misconception they've had of themselves all of this time.
[00:32:21] Speaker B: Do you try to encourage them to be compassionate with themselves as well? Just to try. And you know, I know there's a lot of frustration, but to just practice empathy with them, with themselves, not just others.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: Oh yeah, I don't. So in coaching, I don't, I don't actually believe in shaming ourselves for anything. I don't. When we are stuck in a negative emotion, we're never going to find our way out. We have to get to a place where we feel a little bit differently about ourselves. So I like the word curiosity. Like, that's interesting. I made that choice. I wonder why I did that. What was I thinking? What was going through my mind? And I will say advice for the parents is, whenever I'm speaking in groups or doing workshops with parents, I tell them a couple of things. One, if your child is struggling, start with you. Start with you. Figure out where you could communicate better, where you're not understanding your child always. It doesn't matter if your child, child's on drugs or they have ADHD or they're failing school. Start with you. That's a really good place to start. And another, I tell them a lot of things, but one thing I would like to highlight that I think is really important is I really don't like this word disappointed.
Children really suffer. Not just they feel bad, they suffer when they believe their parents are disappointed in them. And ADHDers feel this all the time. I'll have kids say to me like, oh, I know my parents are disappointed in me. They tell me all the time and I can't, I probably don't have time to go too deep. But just, just to say that in interviewing several different kids they have identified at 14, 15, 16 years old that they equate their parent being disappointed in them and their parent doesn't love them. And these aren't kids that are like, you know, having a really hard time and are coming from broken homes, as I did. These are kids who's like, they look from the outside anyways that their lives are, are really, really great. They have two loving parents in the home. But when their parents tell them that they're just disappointed in them, they make that mean they don't love. I had one 15 year old tell me, but then if I do something that they're proud of, then I feel like they love me again.
This is their misconception about that word. When you think of the word disappointment and what it really means, it means you didn't meet my expectations of you. And we are not, in my opinion, we are not trying to get kids to excel because we want to feel good. We want them to make us proud. We, we want them to take pride in their own work, to feel successful on their own. And so that is a word I have learned and to not use ever, really, when it comes especially to my own children, I don't say I'm disappointed in you. I don't even say I'm disappointed in your behavior. I find other words because I don't want my child stuck in shame, especially a neurodivergent child who is already swimming in shame. I want them to get to a place where they're motivated to find the best version of themselves. And that is not coming, that's not happening when they believe that I am disappointed in who they are or even what they're doing.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: And I think that's such an important point. I'm glad you, you brought that up. So thank you for championing that for sure. Thank you. Thank you so much.
I have A couple more questions for you here on awareness that to hope to bring into awareness, one of them being a success story. Do you think you could share a success story or a breakthrough moment that you've witnessed missed with a teenager or parent that really stayed with you?
[00:35:41] Speaker A: Well, there's so many, right. Because you see children come in here feeling terrible about themselves and leaving, feeling like they can conquer anything. But I think a repeated success story that I've had are children who are engaging in self harm, who are able to stop.
I have a lot of stories like that. I've had kids coming in here that are cutting themselves as young as fifth and sixth grade sometimes because there has been no diagnosis and they know there's something different about them and they, they want to know what it is. So they're. I'm not, I'm not big on labels in that I ever want somebody to use their, their label as a crutch. I don't believe in. Well, I have adhd, so this is why I am the way I am. But it does give us a good explanation for behaviors or what's going on or there's almost like an instruction manual for the brain when we know it's adhd.
Kids will get a lot of relief for understanding why they have felt different. So that's one reason it might be a useful thing to get a diagnosis for a child who is struggling.
I have so many stories of kids that have stopped engaging in self harm. But one girl that I'm thinking of specifically, she had been through trauma and one issue for her was that she had some things happen to her and she didn't feel like people believe her. And I get that a lot with adhd kids.
Like one 11 year old boy, I had him, I wrote everything on the board that he thinks about himself when he came in here and it was, I don't have any friends, I don't want to live. Nobody ever believes me. And there's a lot of reasons for that. ADHDers are more prone to not tell the truth. We know about fight or flight. And then they came up with, with fight, flight or flight, fight or freeze. And they've added a fourth F for ADHD years, which is Fib. And many times ADHDers will lie because one, self preservation, they're so used to getting in trouble.
Two, they, they might be really stressed out and they're not sure what the correct answer is or what you're wanting from them. And there's several other reasons but like giving an ADHDer time to process the information and decide what, what they're going to share instead of being on the spot will at least leave room for maybe more honesty. But these kids are like in constant panic mode. So you see this with the lying a lot.
But these kids are really struggling with not being believed, with people not taking them seriously or not trusting them. And this particular girl had been engaging in self harm for about two years and within just a couple of months in coaching she was able to completely stop. But it's, I think a couple of things contributed to that. I think it was being believed. It was somebody who not just understood that she had adhd, but that had her. My brain worked just like hers and I could, I could finish her sentence for her if I needed to. I knew exactly what she was trying to explain. And then increasing her self confidence and realizing that all the things that she had decided she was because of ADHD really wasn't her. It was just a neurological system that had to be rewired a little bit and she was able to stop engaging in self harm and completely stopped from then on out. And so there's a lot of powerful things. It's amazing when you can talk to a child one on one and help them start to see themselves differently because they're just, they're just looking at the reflection of what everybody sees, which is you're not following through, you're not doing a good enough job, you're not working hard enough, you need to do this, you need to do that. And so what I try to show them and what I think a lot of well intended parents learn to show their kids is, is who they could be, who they have the potential to be and that I'm going to be there whether I'm a parent or a coach.
If it's not working for you, then we've missed something because it's not for lack of trying. You are trying.
Let me help you. Let's figure out whatever resources you need, whatever help you need. And when a child feels that, it's like they rise to the occasion, they thrive and it changes everything for them.
[00:39:37] Speaker B: Right.
So for listeners, let's say, who suspect their teenager may have undiagnosed adhd, what do you think would be the first steps that you recommend they take?
[00:39:51] Speaker A: Well, you definitely want to go get a diagnosis. I've had some feedback from some of the parents I work with that doctors have told them, well, they might, they're kind of on the border here. If it's not really affecting them, then I wouldn't worry about it until it does. I don't agree with that at all. But I have seven neurodivergent children who were really well behaved when they were younger. There weren't any problems. And then when the preteen years came, you know what hit the fan, and it was like, oh, my gosh. By the time those behaviors started to be on full display, this had already been brewing for a long time, and now we had some serious problems. So I don't agree with that advice. I think that if you suspect, you should go somewhere where you can get a thorough evaluation.
93% of psychiatrists today do not know how to properly treat adhd.
So the biggest problem we have is finding people who can diagnose it correctly.
It's more likely you'll have autism than you won't if you have adhd. And that's missed all the time. Somebody who really understands both and can evaluate for both. So, like out here in Arizona, the melmed center or Portica is a great place.
And then if anybody is thinking, like, maybe I have ADHD or maybe my child has ADHD and you want an answer right away, on my website, I've created a free quiz. They're not my own questions. They came right from, you know, specialists who. Who are evaluating people with adhd. So you can take that test to just get a good idea. I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone, but get a good idea if you do have adhd, but go get a proper and thorough evaluation.
My. My recommendation is not from a pediatrician and from somebody who really specializes in neurodiverity emergence.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: Okay, I know you have to go. Bonus question, last one. What strategies or tools have you found most effective in helping families communicate better and work as a team around adhd?
[00:41:42] Speaker A: Well, I think when it comes to tools like whatever I could give you here on this podcast would just be being able to pause and really think about, like, other truths in the situation. We're so quick to react to things. We're so quick to label our children. We're so quick to just assume that we know why they're doing things. And when you really, you know, go read about rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria, make sure you understand what it is so that when your child's having a meltdown, you don't believe that they can just control it. They can learn to control it. So I think really having good communication skills, which is a lot more listening, a lot less telling your child how things are, ADHD children, they just need to know. They need to Know when this is going to end, how long it's going to take, what's involved, giving them all of the information instead of like, because I said so or you don't need to worry about it. That is just torture for an ADHDer.
That the emotion of boredom is one of the most heavy, overwhelming emotions for someone with adhd. So not being so quick to anger when you're getting behavior that you don't like or you don't understand. And maybe before reacting, considering maybe this is part of their wiring, let's sit down and have a conversation about what they need instead of telling them what they should be doing or how they should be acting. Because behavior is communication. And the better we can get at communicating, which is a lot of listening, a lot of trying to understand the diagnosis better and then respond differently. That can make all the difference in a child's behavior and a teenager and feeling like they are being supported and, you know, really able to make that change.
[00:43:24] Speaker B: Jerry south, you have educated the masses today big time. I thank you so much for being on this podcast. You've educated me and I'm sure many others that want to learn more about adhd. And thank you for all your expertise today.
[00:43:41] Speaker A: You're welcome. It's been a pleasure being here. Thanks for inviting me.
[00:43:45] Speaker B: Of course. So, Jerry South, ADHD specialist, teen and parent coach, Headspace Hub founder. How can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about your clinic, your operations and such?
[00:43:59] Speaker A: The best way is to just go to my website, which is jerry self.com I know it's, it's spelled a little bit differently, but I have a very inexpensive ADHD course with lots of interview with Dr. William Dodson is one of the top ADHD specialists in the United States. I have a free ADHD test. I have a free rejection sensitivity webinar. You can do a free consult with me there. I have all of my coaching options there. But there's a. And there's lots of of freebies on there to help you with boundaries and consequences and whatever else you might need to help better parent your teenager.
[00:44:32] Speaker B: Jerry, thank you so much again and appreciate your expertise.
[00:44:37] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:44:38] Speaker B: That's Jerry south on awareness, episode number 18, fostering a more compassionate, empathetic and accepting society. Don't forget to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts for awareness. That would certainly mean the world. If you're watching on YouTube or listening anywhere, you get this podcast. Thank you so much for that. And for producer Mike, I am Rob Daniels. I'll catch you in the next episode.
