OPP officer, Katy Viccary

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Hey there again and welcome to Awareness Fostering a more compassionate, empathetic and accepting Society. I'm your host, Rob Daniels. Episode four is here. We're so glad that you are here and I have a feeling it's going to teach us a whole lot today. Here to help us do just that is my very special guest, Katie Vickery. Hi. Hi, Katie. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you. Really appreciate that you that you put the time in to come by the studio and be willing to share your story and mental health journey with us. With us. I think that's super important for sure. [00:01:01] Speaker A: Thank you for having me and shining a light on this important topic. [00:01:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And I just want to say thank you so much if you've been following along on the episodes thus far, don't forget to click like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, etc. This podcast can be heard and seen amongst 42 platforms. So thank you so much wherever you may be watching or listening to this podcast. Again, much appreciated. So, Katie, it's been a while that I have have last seen you and it's so good to see you. And for those that don't know, Katie Vickery is a OPP officer. Fifteen years of service, which is incredible. [00:01:45] Speaker A: Thank you very much. [00:01:46] Speaker B: And that's very. [00:01:47] Speaker A: I haven't seen you in two years. [00:01:48] Speaker B: It's been two years. That's very special service. Deep, meaningful purpose, protecting the community, protecting Canadians. Like, it's really something that you should be proud of. [00:01:59] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you. [00:02:01] Speaker B: So 15 years, with that being said, that Katie has worked for the opp. Now she is on a leave. Why don't you tell the audience a little bit about why you're on this leave from the opp? [00:02:15] Speaker A: Yeah, so just, just to clarify, I've been a police officer for 15 years, but not all my service time was with the opp. [00:02:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:23] Speaker A: So I started my career with the Toronto Police Service and I worked in the Jane and Finch corridor area for about seven years. And then 2017, I transferred over to the Ontario Provincial Police as an experienced police officer. And yeah, so I, I am currently off work right now. I've been off work for about 14 months. I, you know, putting a face to PTSD. And I have been diagnosed with that. And I've spent the last 14 years, or, excuse me, 14 months working towards wellness and I've done some residential treatment. I went away for 10 weeks last year. Yeah. And then I've done a few other one week through like Wounded Warriors, Valhalla Project, Trauma Support, and some other outpatient programming. [00:03:16] Speaker B: And how does that work exactly? Like, was it something you had to admit to yourself and then to your employer that you feel like you needed to take this leave, or was it something. [00:03:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:29] Speaker B: They said to you? [00:03:31] Speaker A: I think it was a long time coming. I think I probably put it off for probably a year or two longer than I should have. And I was really struggling, and I was dealing with, to be honest, like, suicidal thoughts and things of that nature. And, yeah, it was basically a dumpster fire at the end. And I just reached out to my manager, and through the opp, we have something called the Encompass Program. And I can't say, you know, enough wonderful things about it. You can call and basically you have help within seconds. They helped me get into the residential treatment center that I attended last year. I think the wait list is like a year long, and I got in within six weeks and, yeah, so very blessed in that regard. And I just, you know, took a knee from work, and when I go back, I'll be stronger than before, but I definitely needed to take this time to work on my wellness, to be a better police officer. You know, mother, daughter, all the different roles. [00:04:41] Speaker B: And did you find that your employer was quite compassionate and supportive when you. When you took the. When you said, this is what I need to do for my wellness? [00:04:50] Speaker A: I did, yeah. Yeah. I was very. I still. I'm very well supported. Lots of, you know, colleagues, you know, civilian or uniform, otherwise, all the way up, you know, chain of command. I have lots of people checking in on me and seeing how I'm doing and. Yeah. Giving genuine support. Right. It's not just lip service. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's like they actually provide the services for you. [00:05:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:10] Speaker B: Which is. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Even if it's just like, coming by and having, you know, a coffee on my couch and so that I don't feel isolated or, you know, like. Like I'm being shunned. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. [00:05:23] Speaker A: It's not that at all. [00:05:24] Speaker B: So when were you first, like, diagnosed with ptsd? And you had told me away from this episode that it's also ADHD and depression, so each of them all around the same time for you. And. And was there anything specifically that triggered these diagnosis? [00:05:42] Speaker A: I even, I think, back into university, I was struggling with depression and anxiety and took some medication for that. And then, you know, here I am, 23 years old, fresh out of university policing, working long shifts, lots of overtime, in a very high crime area within the gta, and traumatic incident after Traumatic incident. Trauma. Trauma. Trauma. You know, they say, like the bricks in the backpack. [00:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:10] Speaker A: And I think I was in my third year when I realized that, you know, I was struggling with kind of departmentalizing some of this trauma. So I had reached out to our employee family assistance program through the Toronto Police Service, and I found a local service provider up in my area where I reside, and I call her my earth angel. And I've been seeing her for, you know, the last 13 years. And she's been with me, like, since my first appointment to present. I'm doing pretty intensive outpatient programming with her right now. Different modalities of therapy. [00:06:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:48] Speaker A: And so she kind of, you know, knew me at my baseline, you know, through the thick of it in the last two years when things were, you know, really difficult. And then presently, I'm sorry. [00:07:02] Speaker B: So is that your psychologist? [00:07:03] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. [00:07:04] Speaker B: And she's been with you for 13 years? [00:07:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:06] Speaker B: And it's great when you find a connection like that that works so well and helps you manage these. [00:07:10] Speaker A: And that's the thing I tell people all the time. It took me going to six different clinicians to find the person that I drived with. Well, right. It's. It's. I. I equate it to, like, finding your spouse. You're not just going to marry the person you go on the first date with. There was lots of things. The environment, how did they make me feel? You know, how was the chemistry between us? And so, yeah, I call her my earth angel. Even when I was doing residential treatment last year, she would. Because you're under the care of a doctor there, she would zoom in for all of our meetings. She was, like, part of the case management team. So, you know, I think that that has made a world of a difference, too. [00:07:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:49] Speaker A: You don't have to keep sharing everything with a new clinician. [00:07:53] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:53] Speaker A: We have that rapport. [00:07:55] Speaker B: That's good. That's good because it's. Yeah. Like you said, you just. Getting a good therapist is a difficult thing. Like you're saying, finding a good partner, you have to experiment. [00:08:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And I. And I take part in lots of different group therapies, and I find that it's. It's a good mix of people that have found, you know, clinicians that they work well with, and unfortunately, some who just can't seem to find the right clinician. But I always say, just. Just keep trying, you know what I mean? Because it will pay off in the. [00:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, very true. Let's go through each of your, like, diagnosis. You want to say in terms of symptoms. And I want to begin with, because I listen, I'm fairly new to it as well. I was doing some research on this, trying to really figure out your situation, what you've been going through, beginning with complex PTSD and like, what do you go through daily with that? What are the symptoms of that? [00:08:55] Speaker A: Currently, I'm managing it fairly well. You know, thank God for a good support system, an amazing spouse, you know, the right medications, time away from my workplace, where the traumas were occurring. But it wasn't always that case. And when I was. A couple years ago, when I was, you know, trying to convince myself and others that I was okay and that I wasn't struggling, I think that, you know, destructive behaviors and sleep deprivation, you know, in excess drinking. Right. Like excessive drinking. [00:09:33] Speaker B: So a mixture of. Of family support, your kids and your husband being there for you and, and therapy and medications is what helps you manage it. [00:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And good, you know, good friends. Like, I've, I've got. I've gone to a few different, like, support groups, and I've met some wonderful people and I keep in touch with them. And there's weekly zoom meetings with all the different groups. And, you know, within that group, you kind of, you know, connect well with one or two people, and then, you know, they understand what you're going through, you understand what they're going through. Some really unique friendships have been formed. [00:10:10] Speaker B: That's good. [00:10:11] Speaker A: Through the ptsd. Right. So I'm, I'm grateful for that. [00:10:16] Speaker B: Yeah. It's good just to be, you know, open and honest about your mental health and surround yourself with people that give you less judgment about. About that and are there that want to help you. And it seems like what you're saying is, yeah, it's, it's. It's managed well. And like I've always said, and I want to look right into the camera to say that, like, you know, managing or overcoming in mental health, either way, you have to look at that as a win, in my opinion. Like, it's. It's not always going to be the time that you fully overcome something. We, we feel the trauma sometimes we get triggered at times. But if you find ways of managing, if you find ways of overcoming, those are great gifts right there. So consider yourself blessed if you can do either of that. So I'm happy to hear that from you. And we touch on, like, a little bit about the adhd. And again, I had a friend, I have a few friends that have kids that have it. But you like anybody, if you're not living in their shoes. You don't really know what it's like to help a child with adhd or you're like, unless you're experiencing it, which you say you have, you don't really know what the symptoms and what someone's going through with it. So what do you experience with it? [00:11:37] Speaker A: Well, to be honest with you, when I was not. When we were just kind of going through the exploration phases, they. The doctors were testing me for bipolar disorder. We weren't quite sure because I can have high highs and low lows, kind of like manic. And the ADHD is just. It's just cyclical. It's just kind of like overwhelming thoughts all the time. So, you know, I've learned in the last two years I have, you know, lots of tools in my toolbox, so to speak. Right. And different. Yeah. And different experiences or different days. I'll. I'll pull out different tools depending on the. And, you know, I have lots of kids at home. I have four children, four boys at home. So sometimes it's hard for me to be able to do what I need to do to take care of myself when I'm trying to take care of these four kids. [00:12:28] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's challenging, for sure. Mastering this yourself within. Yeah, it's a very difficult thing to do. And we have good days and we have bad days, and I'm sure those kids are blessings. But at the same time, there could be days where they press buttons that are like, why'd you do that to me on this day where I do not need it? And I think, you know, that just needs to be brought into awareness as well, that just, you know, that you are doing so well with, you know, managing and overcoming that, you know, that you're a mother of four and you're trying to look after your mental wellness. Like, I think we don't get enough credit where credit is due. That you're, you know, you're here, you're. Well, for the most part, you've gone through a lot of trauma, but you deserve, you know, a round of applause to just raise four boys. [00:13:20] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:13:20] Speaker B: That's just something I, you know, it's. [00:13:24] Speaker A: A lot of energy. Yeah. [00:13:25] Speaker B: A lot of energy. Especially when you're going through. Yeah. What you're going through. [00:13:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So not every day is a good day. I don't want to sit here and make it sound like it's, you know, rainbows and. Yeah. I'm not going to sugarcoat anything. I've been very transparent in the last Few years with my struggles, and I strive to just, you know, shine a light and say, like, yes, I had PTSD and one day at a time. [00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So with these, I don't want to say issues, these challenges that you're going through, and really, for anyone, what do you. What do you recommend? Because that's a big thing. Like, it's a big load to have your work life, your family life, and you've got four children to look after. What do you tell yourself in your mind when you're going through a struggle in the moment, but you have to look after your child? How do you put. Push that to the side? And sometimes you might not be able to in the moment because of how triggering it can be. What do you do in that moment when one of your boys is challenging you with something, but you're going through your own struggle? [00:14:37] Speaker A: It's so difficult. I rely on my husband a lot, I won't lie. You know, he's been my best friend for over 25 years. We've been married 14. And I think the, you know, we have a really solid friendship. And he has seen me, you know, strive in university to, you know, want to become a police officer, to, you know, living out that dream. And he has seen what this career has. Has done, good and bad. Right. I'm not just gonna say it's all negative, but the trauma and so, you know, I rely on him a lot, and we get through it together one day at a time. We have an amazing family support system, and without them, we could not do this life. I always say that, like, we're just so blessed. [00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:24] Speaker A: So I just like to count my blessings and, you know, take each good day as a win. And if I'm not having a good day, just, you know, I have different things. I' either, you know, do you like I. [00:15:38] Speaker B: The adhd, it doesn't work for everybody. [00:15:41] Speaker A: No, it doesn't. So for me, it does not. I. I am very creative, so I'll paint. I'll. I'll do anything creative, like work on gardens or, you know, redecorate a room or, you know, I do paint by numbers or diamond art or wood burning. I like your sign, by the way. Yeah. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Shout out to Importers Gifts. Follow them on Instagram at Importers Gifts. Yeah, they put. Provided the sign for the podcast. Yeah, that's. [00:16:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really nice. I just do anything like that, you know, and play with, like, my kids and, you know, two of them play rep hockey, so. Hockey seven days a week. [00:16:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:19] Speaker A: The height of my PTSD though, like the arenas, the noises, the. I. I couldn't go. I'm slowly starting to go again. But even some days are, I'll be honest with you, quite challenging for me. So maybe I'll just go. And the twins and I, I have twins that are three. Maybe just hang out at the park, at the arena, going in. And just sometimes it's just overwhelming for me. So I just try to have positive self talk. And I've done lots of different modalities of therapy and one of them is cpt. And for me, anyone who knows therapy would know what an 11.1. I like to challenge my suck points and my negative thoughts and it really, if you start doing that throughout the day with little things, it gets easier to process the bigger traumas. So that's kind of the modality that I've adapted and had good success with. [00:17:11] Speaker B: So why don't you elaborate on what CPT is? [00:17:15] Speaker A: Oh, like cognitive processing therapy. [00:17:17] Speaker B: Oh, so that's a difference from cb. [00:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah, that's cognitive behavioral therapy. Yeah. [00:17:22] Speaker B: So CPT stands for cognitive processing Therapy. Processing therapy. Okay. You learn something new every I. So there. And you're finding that help. [00:17:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:17:33] Speaker B: So that's fantastic. And I think, you know, also with managing it or you know, the day to day busyness, I think we can just normalize it in mental health now to say that. And I've read a lot about this online from other females, other mothers, specifically that I think if you get a moment to yourself at the end of the day, a glass of wine helps put the edge off a little bit, wouldn't you say? [00:17:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I'm trying not to do that so much anymore because it was an issue at one, at one point in time. [00:18:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:18:02] Speaker A: But you know, a hot bath or you know, I just say to my husband like, I want to clean the kitchen. I'm gonna put my earbuds in. Just like take the kids and go like we have. Or I'm gonna go upstairs and do laundry, fold it, like do a fold fest because God knows how much laundry we have. I'll just like do a big folding listening to a podcast or watching a show, you know what I mean? Like just find a little time in each day. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:26] Speaker A: And it doesn't have to be glorious. It doesn't need to be, you know, spending money or what have you. But and for me, anything creative is kind of where I channel my energy. [00:18:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:35] Speaker A: So that's what I enjoy doing. [00:18:37] Speaker B: As long as you find that helpful. Everyone's Got a different thing. So I'm glad that works for you. Why don't you chat with the audience a little bit about being on the leave from work for, for mental health related reasons. For others out there, say needing and seeking the same thing. What would you tell them if they may be shy or nervous about doing so? [00:19:02] Speaker A: You deserve it. You deserve to be happy, you deserve to be healthy. Taking a knee is not a sign of weakness. And you know, you can reach out to your employee family assistance program. I know for me personally being with the opp, my OPP association, the OPPA has been wonderful and you know, our Encompass program through Dalton Associates, you can go to, to them with any issue and they'll help you. They have like a Rolodex of, you know, if you're going through a separation. Okay. These are some, you know, attorneys if you, you know, you're, I'm just, I know a friend, his daughter had bulimia. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:43] Speaker A: He calls the association. Okay. We can get her into this doctor, like literally it's a Rolodex, so. And I'm sure most major police services would have something similar. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:52] Speaker A: So my answer would be, you know, you don't want to wait till the end of this career to start taking care of yourself. You need to invest now. Mental health matters and you know, it's again, it's just, it's not a sign of weakness. We go to call after call after call. Trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma. You know what we're exposed to. You know, one shift, one block of shifts, one month, one year. It's just trauma, trauma. I'm not, not painting the picture like it's all negative, but I'm just no real with you. Right. [00:20:24] Speaker B: Serving your community, you're serving your province in all positive ways. [00:20:27] Speaker A: But there's a lot of, you're working. [00:20:29] Speaker B: Bad stuff out there. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Minimum 12 hour shifts, plus your commute on either end, plus, you know, kids and life and whatever you have. And it's hard. And I got to the point where I couldn't pour from, from an empty cup. [00:20:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:41] Speaker A: And you know what I mean, I, I do wish I, I reached out sooner, but eventually I did and I was, you know, I had warm reception with my supervisors, with my colleagues, with my friends, with my family. I think that I had to come to the terms with it on my own and I did. And it's, that's been my driving force is, you know, working towards wellness. And then when I do go back, maybe doing some sort of work in this, you know, space of Peer support or something like that from lived experience that you know, it doesn't mean that you're weak or that you know that you're not meant to be a police officer. Just okay, I'm just taking a knee, working on myself and then I'll be back. [00:21:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So you feel like you want to pay it forward when you get back to do, do other things too? Yeah. To help others. [00:21:30] Speaker A: I do, I do unofficially like in some of my support groups acts as a mentor and you know, I've gone to Wings of Change meetings in Barry, founded by Natalie Harris, who's a retired paramedic in our area. And I found those kind of group setting, you know, in addition to my one on one sessions with my therapist. [00:21:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:50] Speaker A: I've gone to Valhalla Project Trauma support. I've met wonderful people there as well. I've been wounded warriors. I did a program with them and then of course through ehn, Edgewood Health Network, I went away to the guardians facility called Gateway. It's located in Peterborough, Ontario. I did a 10 week program. It's residential. [00:22:11] Speaker B: And so you were there all 10 weeks and you, you had the, the. [00:22:15] Speaker A: Kids were with my husband and family and that's tough. And that's what I mean when I say like I have the most supportive spouse and the most supportive family. Cuz I physically went away. It's residential treatment. You're there, you live there in a residence and then your schooling's in the other building. And after the third week my husband could bring my kids to me on weekends. Yeah, yeah. Which was difficult too because my twins were like 2 and a 7 year old and a 9 year old at the time and hockey. So I did see them. Yeah. [00:22:46] Speaker B: But that in itself is tough mentally. Quite a challenge to not see them. [00:22:50] Speaker A: Oh, it's hard daily as your mother. So I, I, and it's hard then, you know, you're caught between a rock and hard place. You're trying to take care of yourself and you deserve that and you're, you're, you know, you need to do that. I got to the point where I needed to do that. But then you're missing out on so much of your kids, you know. So I actually, I checked in January 2nd of that year and you know, you just get over the holidays and then, you know, so it was difficult. It was really difficult. But I was home before my birthday in March and very forever grateful for the connections that I made there. I saved my life, to be honest with you. [00:23:28] Speaker B: Well, I'm so happy that service helped you to that extent. And I want to. I want to talk to you about the relationship you had with your dad, your father. I mean, I'm a father to a girl, and I know father, daughter friendships can be real special. I once read in an article when you were asked what motivated you to become a police officer. It can all be traced back to your father, John Garner, and the spirit of helping people in the community. And, you know, I just got to say that's so great that you were inspired by him and. And you wanted to serve and. And protect. And I also noticed that you were beaming when you kissed him on the cheek on your wedding day in a photo online that I've seen. What are some of your most fond memories of your dad? [00:24:21] Speaker A: I guess just for the listeners that maybe wouldn't be aware, I'll just say that my dad's deceased. He passed of suicide on my wedding anniversary, actually, in 2016, 2017. So just to get that out there, I was the one that located him. So I was off duty at the time. But where did you find. Yeah, so I found him deceased in a forest. Yeah. So he struggled with his own mental health issues. I have many people in my family that have mental health challenges. Some, you know, prefer not to speak about it. And some, like myself, you know, are transparent with it and just, you know, so want to support other people that need the support. [00:25:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Were you on duty when you so. [00:25:07] Speaker A: No, I was off duty when I found my dad. And it was, you know, it was tough. It was my wedding anniversary as well. So, yeah, he was very unwell. He lived with me the last year of his life, and I saw him fight until the very end and, you know, succumb to his, you know, mental health. And it was just in the last year that I've forgiven myself for not being able to save him. I forgave him when he died, but I always felt like there was more that I could have done and. Yeah, but back to the wedding day in the photo that you're referencing, you know, I. I've had. I had, you know, over 30amazing years with him. He got to walk me down the aisle, and that's the picture that you're referencing. And he was just so happy that I was marrying who I was marrying. He just loves my husband and. Yeah. So that's all I can say about that. [00:26:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Without crying too much. [00:26:12] Speaker B: No, I completely understand. So you were mentioning his mental health challenges. What exactly was it, if you don't mind speaking about it? Why do you like why do you think? [00:26:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm open about it. Yeah. So he struggled with depression, as did his dad and as did many other males in our family. So he had an attempt 10 years prior in 2007, and thankfully, you know, he. His attempt was not successful, and he sought treatment. He did some inpatient programming, sold the hockey store. So we had a store called Garner Sports. My great grandfather started it. My grandpa and my dad all ran the store. So it was then in 2007, he sold the store, got two big Bernese mountain dogs, and those were his. His joy. Right. And, you know, lived 10 more years. And then I would say about a year and a half before he ended up passing. He was really struggling with his mental health again. So we were trying different medications, he was at different facilities. You know, unfortunately, the wait times between appointments can be months. And when you're really struggling, and I can speak to that myself, you need help now. And like, you know, it can't even wait till tomorrow type thing when you're really in. In the throes of it. Right. So, yeah. So he passed in February of 2017, and that four months later, I switched from Toronto Police Service to the Ontario Provincial Police of my younger brothers, got hired with South Simcoe Police Service. So it was quite a. Quite a big year. And my brother's actually working as a mental health officer for South Simcoe Police Service. So I think that this is maybe full circle. We just want to help people that are struggling. We understand it firsthand. I was a caregiver to my dad, who was suicidal, you know, for over a year, like, the day in and day out was. And I could see the struggle, and I could see he was giving it everything he could. And in the end, I just have to understand that, you know, I love him to death. I'll see him again one day. And in the meantime, just take care of myself and my kids, because I know that's what he would be wanting me to do. [00:28:37] Speaker B: Exactly. So this all happened to you, and it's. It's gotta be so hurtful, the grief. A lot of people talk about grief and how it's different for everyone, specifically for you, with this tragic event of the passing of your dad, how do you handle the grief caused by this tragic event? [00:28:58] Speaker A: I've learned that there was nothing I could have done to change the outcome. And I. That took a lot of. A lot of therapy, a lot of 11 point ones. I had, like, 33 stuck points about the day that he died, thinking that there was 33 things I could have done differently. Anyways, I've worked through that. I've put in a lot of work to swallow the fact that, you know, I. I did my best and I do truly believe that he's resting peacefully now and he has four beautiful grandsons that, you know, are as hockey obsessed as he was. And I'm just trying to take care of myself and take care of them in honor of him. And I forget. What. What was the question? [00:29:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I was just trying to. To find out, like, how do you handle the grief? [00:29:49] Speaker A: Oh, so. And I've also learned that grief is not linear. It's cyclical. And, you know, going back to like, grade three, the feelings wheel. I have to name it to tame it. [00:30:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:00] Speaker A: And just let the emotions come and hold space for it and then just use different tools for my toolbox to get through that moment and not numb it with alcohol or run away from the problems like. Like. Like I maybe was doing in the past. [00:30:18] Speaker B: Good for you for being able to. To manage it and finding ways through therapy that. That help you. Actually, I wanted to read this too. I found this, and I. And I was thinking about you when it comes to grief. Let me just read it to you aloud in this podcast and for anyone that might be struggling with grief. And this is something I found online that Jim Carrey once said, and I'll read it to you. Maybe it helps you. Maybe it helps anybody in the audience that might be watching or listening to this podcast. Jim Carrey once said, grief is not just an emotion. It's an unraveling. A space where something once lived but is now gone. It carves through you, leaving a hollow ache where love once resided. In the beginning, it feels unbearable, like a wound that will never close. But over time, the raw edges begin to mend. The pain softens, but the impact, but the imprint remains. A quiet reminder of what once was. The truth is, you never truly, quote, move on. You move with it. The love you had does not disappear. It transforms. It lingers in the echoes of laughter, in the warmth of old memories, in the silent moments where you still reach for what is no longer there. And that's okay. Grief is not a burden to be hidden. It is not a weakness to be ashamed of. It is the deepest proof that love existed, that something beautiful once touched your life. So let yourself feel it. Let yourself mourn. Let yourself remember. There is no timeline, no quote, right way to grieve. Some days will be heavy and some will feel lighter. Some moments will bring unexpected waves of sadness, while others will Fill you with gratitude for the love you are lucky enough to experience. Honor your grief, for it is sacred. It is a testament to the depth of your heart. And in time, through the pain, you will find healing. Not because you have forgotten, but because you have learned how to carry both love and loss together. [00:32:25] Speaker A: That is profound. [00:32:27] Speaker B: Right. From Jim Carrey. Send that to you, please. And that is exactly instantly when I read that. So I'm like, I had to read it to you. [00:32:33] Speaker A: I really appreciate that. And for the listeners, too, that could, could listen to that. And I think that that sums it up perfectly. Like, I can miss him. I can be mad at him. One moment, I can miss him, you know, the next, I can be angry at him. But at the end of the day, I'm just so thankful I had, you know, over 30 years of my life with him. He instilled very good values and morals in me. Most of them are, like, community based. And, you know, he had a passion for his community and the downtown core where we. And obviously the hockey, you know, community. And I remember, like, Sunday nights, if there was like a hockey tournament in town, our phone at our house would be, like, ringing off the hook because he would put a note on the door saying, like, if anyone needs a skate sharpened, call me. And like, we'd be in the middle of dinner and then he would just. Phone would ring back in the day, you know, the big cord. See him go around the corner. [00:33:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:26] Speaker A: And like, much to my stepmom's dismay, he might just, you know, burn out and go sharpen the team skates. [00:33:33] Speaker B: Wow. [00:33:33] Speaker A: That was just how he was so kind. [00:33:35] Speaker B: You even told me in a message once, I think that, that even though he may have been struggling, he would help out the community with. [00:33:41] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, like, dropping off. This is a funny one. One time when he was in the psych ward, he was at a local hospital in our town. And it was a Sunday night, and so I would see him, I would go and visit him every day. And back then I had like a newborn me and the baby would go up and had to sign form saying that I, you know, consent my little infant to come in with, in there with me. And he said, can you do me a favor? Could you. Can you buy 25 large pizzas? I want to do a pizza party tonight. So that's what we did. We had them delivered literally to the psych ward at the hospital. That's. That's his caring nature. [00:34:17] Speaker B: That's. [00:34:17] Speaker A: That's the spirit of giving. That's how I was raised you know what I mean? And he, like I said, we owned a hockey store and on the main street, Dunlop street, where we live or in the city we live. And homeless people would all camp out there. [00:34:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:32] Speaker A: Because of the Elko. And he would, like, give the money or, you know, go get a big. You know, they didn't have take tens back then, but, like, trays and trays of coffee or hot chocolate and give it to them. He was just always very caring. [00:34:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Seems like, you know, people that are struggling the most seem to be the ones that want to help the most. And you may have noticed that with your father. I noticed that with. With people in my life, family, friendships, that they are struggling, but they serve, like you would not believe, they serve the world, their purpose, and it's incredible. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and it makes me think of Robin Williams, you know. [00:35:11] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly what came to mind. [00:35:13] Speaker A: He served us with, like, my childhood of laughter and. And comedy. And humor. Right. [00:35:21] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. He. He did a tremendous job and, you know, God rest his soul, like, you know, it's. It's very sad story with that, but he definitely made a lot of people laugh and served his purpose on this. On this earth. So what are your goals, Katie? You know, when it comes to work, again, like, returning to what you love doing? Because I imagine you love doing the work. Even though there's. There's positives and negatives to any type of employment and you want to return to work, do you see yourself being able to at some point soon? Is there some light at the end of the tunnel or is this still. [00:35:59] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, there's light at the end of the tunnel. There's. There's lots of light. You know, I think I'd be lying if I said I didn't take time to reflect during my time off to really contemplate, like, you know, I still have 15 years to work. You know, is this something I want to get back into? It is. I think it's just my passion, but, you know, there's so many different positions within my police service that interest me and that maybe aren't front line in the throes of, you know, especially suicides or. [00:36:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:33] Speaker A: Things of that nature, because that can be very triggering. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:36:37] Speaker B: And I have to deal with that in the moment, so maybe there's something that keeps your anxiety at bay. I don't know, though. [00:36:45] Speaker A: I love working with kids and, you know, maybe like, peer support or, you know, something with community engagement. For sure. [00:36:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:53] Speaker A: Yeah. I definitely see myself going back yeah, for sure. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think you do a fantastic job and just you wanting to heal yourself to the fullest potential is a testament to yourself. So. [00:37:03] Speaker A: Well, and I think part of it too. Your first guest that you had on the show, Susan. Yeah. Her and I both belong to Simcoe County Suicide Awareness Council. And I think that we have fit also found purpose. You know, though we've all lost someone to suicide, which, you know what, it has brought us together and we have this common purpose and we're working hard to break the stigma. Right, let's get talking and keep talking. And you know, everybody has mental challenges, mental health challenges. I don't know anybody that, you know, smooth sailing through life. So, you know, we can just normalize these conversations. That's my goal. [00:37:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Speaking of suicide, I understand, like, I read online that you have some sort of an affiliation or maybe you were a part of the launch. Was it the. Of the 988 number? Yeah. So that if you want to tell the audience, we mentioned it on the show before, but if you. Another reminder. [00:38:01] Speaker A: Yeah, Anyone, anyone can, you know, as you would dial 911411, you can dial 988 and right away there's no wait time. You'll get rate connected with someone that would be able to help you and get localized services with wherever you're located. So that just launched two years ago. So that's incredible. The national hotline. [00:38:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:25] Speaker B: Fantastic service indeed. Finally, I'm going to open the mic up to you, Katie Vickery. You know, you're fantastic for stopping by and opening up about your mental health and for anyone else that that may be going through what you are, what would you tell them to try and help? [00:38:48] Speaker A: Oh, I would say hang in there. You're loved. It's not a one, one size fits all. What works for some people doesn't work for other people. So things I've mentioned here today might not work for you, but just, just hang in there and just keep on keeping on and be open and honest. I find, I find as soon as I was open and honest with people, hey, listen, like, I'm really struggling. Like, people don't know what they don't know until they know it. [00:39:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:18] Speaker A: So, like you don't walk around with like a big, I have ptsd, I have depression. So I'm just saying, you know, sometimes, just saying to someone, listen, I'm having, you know, a rough time right now. I just need a listening ear. Like sometimes it's like I'm not even looking for advice, I just need like a listening ear to listen, bounce some stuff off of. [00:39:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:38] Speaker A: You know, obviously, if you're having suicidal ideations or thoughts, you know, go to the nearest hospital or call, Call somebody, seek help. You know, don't sit alone with those thoughts. That's when they fester. And then that's when, you know, sometimes, you know. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And I just want to, you know, a testament I'd like to say to your. Your workplace and to the OPP for. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:02] Speaker B: You know, encouraging you to get that help that you wanted. Like there's, I imagine, some workplaces out there that still exist that wouldn't necessarily take to being compassionate and empathetic towards your situation. And I think we need to normalize. That doesn't matter whether it's an OPP job or if it's a job sitting somewhere as an accountant or a secretary, something that you may be going through office places. [00:40:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:29] Speaker B: 100 to do what the OPP did. [00:40:32] Speaker A: Excuse me. I have lots of friends who, you know, first responders. I have a good buddy of mine who was denied by wsib, not classified as a first responder as, you know, an orange pilot. I have a friend that is a law clerk for serious injury and death. And the files that she goes through and the pictures and reading these testimonies and, you know, she gets no coverage for. For mental health benefits. So, I mean. And those are just two people that popped into my head because I was just speaking with them earlier in the week about mental health and supports and what's available because, you know, every. Everybody could benefit from talking to a therapist. [00:41:13] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:41:13] Speaker A: You know, you don't have to have issues or PTSD or any other diagnosis or whatever. You want to label things. [00:41:18] Speaker B: Things. Yeah. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Just to work through. You know, we've all lived through this global pandemic. We've, you know, and I think people leave it there. [00:41:26] Speaker B: Yeah. The politics need to also sort of embrace. And I know it's expensive, but if you want your employees to show up at their best, then I really believe we need to normalize. Putting aside, along with someone's compensation that it. You need to up the traditional 500 for a mental health specialist when you. That. That'll take care of maybe three or four sessions that may help someone like, you know, and. And that'll be that for a while. But that puts a lot of strain on a person where they think, oh my gosh, I got to get better in like three or four sessions. And it may not be the case. We gotta. We gotta emphasize that that's gotta grow. I mean, I'd say anywhere between a thousand and fifteen hundred, but it's gotta be double five hundred. I mean, just the way the prices are. I know 988 is a great service, but if you really need the help you need in an hour session, then we need to do something about that. So let that be heard here. All right. [00:42:20] Speaker A: Please. [00:42:20] Speaker B: I want to thank Katie Vickery for coming in today. [00:42:23] Speaker A: I do. [00:42:24] Speaker B: I need a hug. [00:42:25] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:42:25] Speaker B: All right. Okay. Thank you so much. This is Awareness episode four. So thank you so much for listening, watching wherever you get your podcasts, and don't forget to like and subscribe. Really, really appreciate you being here. That's Katie Vickery. I'm Rob Daniels. We'll see you in the next episode.